4 ms·

I don't like this, because it creates a network that users can connect to, on YOUR property, that YOU don't control. Comcast is literally using the property you

by boyaka 12y ago

I don't like this, because it creates a network that users can connect to, on YOUR property, that YOU don't control. Comcast is literally using the property you own to spy on people that are near you. I assume that they are doing a lot to control the traffic of individuals connecting to these hotspots.

jamesbrownuhh 12y ago
Whoa! What? Who's "spying on people that are near you"? And incidentally, what part of "the property you own" is being used here? The cable modem, which isn't yours? The Comcast network, which you don't own? The wireless spectrum, over which you have no exclusivity? Your IP connectivity, which isn't affected? I find it baffling that people can be so hugely resistant to such harmless ideas. Seriously, where does that come from?
- boyaka 12y ago
  I assume there is motivation for these large ISPs to provide internet access (and thus additional bandwidth) for free at all of their customer's locations. I assume there is some sort of profit being made from it, and I assume it has something to do with finding out what/who is near these access points and maybe seeing what they are doing and feeding them different sorts of data based on that information. The property you own that they are utilizing is just that, your property, or your estate. They are using the land that you work your entire life to rent or own to scan mobile devices around it and gather information which they are profiting from. I just think it is a stretch to go from a simple cable modem (which customers could easily own, but they'd rather give away their natural right to control their own property for ease of use/access) which should just simply be providing access to the bandwidth you are paying for (like cable boxes would just provide you a connection to your TV channels of choice), to operating an internet service to anybody in your area.
  - jamesbrownuhh 12y ago
    Your opening paragraph starts with four assumptions, none of which are backed up by any evidence. Why do you "assume" that Comcast are trying to "find out" who/what is near those access points? What cause have you to "assume" that they are "maybe seeing what they are doing"? What is the basis of your claim that they are using this as a way to 'scan mobile devices .. and gather information which they are profiting from'? What information? Profiting how? Without facts, what you're saying is indistinguishable from any other conspiracy theory. You say 'operating an internet service to anybody in your area' and in the main it's not "anybody" - it's Comcast customers. Of which you, if you are so affected, are likely to be one. Comcast using their equipment, their facilities, their network and their backhaul to operate an internet facility to THEIR customers. The long and the short of services like this is that people - where they have a choice - are more likely to choose, or stay with, or be happier paying for, an Internet Service Provider if they get more value from it. If your Comcast internet service suddenly comes with the ability to access that service from wifi hotspots throughout the town or city where you live [and there's a great chance of there being a significant number of such hotspots available in a locale served by a dominant cable operator] then you, as a Comcast customer, are likely to get a good value from that. Good value equals more and happier customers willing to keep paying the same or more. Simple business. No covert data-gathering and "seeing what people are doing" conspiracies required.
    - boyaka 12y ago
      I'm not just making up a cause for worrying about free hotspots...It may have been conspiracy talk but there has been discussion about the ethics behind them before. I think it's worth discussing what people are doing with the power to control people's access to internet, especially when it seems like Comcast is just shoving them into peoples homes. Fact: Once you have a XfinityWIFI added to your device and wifi turned on, you are automatically connecting to these hotspots. Lots of customers don't understand the implication of this, which is that Comcast knows where you are located. Fact: You can see a lot more information about devices connected to the an internet access point if you control the lowest routing layer. Just try hooking up a router into another router, and try seeing the devices connected to the first router on the second. Giving Comcast control of routing the internet connection available on your property is allowing them to see details about devices in the area, which they would not see if they were simply providing you a single connection to a router that you own. Sure, plenty of providers had wifi built into their modems (all those crappy 2WIRE things), but at the very least the customer is able to set a password and control who Comcast is able to see is near their property. With this service it just seems like Comcast is making all it's customer's homes a tracking point for everybody else. Why should customers be able to access the internet at random locations based on where other customers live? Isn't that what a mobile data connection is for? Sure, the more hotspots available the better, I guess, but if comcast wants to provide access to the internet it should create a technology that can do it without using other people's property/land/estate, and without being able to gather useful information about peoples' locations and maybe more detailed device and network traffic information. Also, I don't know much about analyzing a single network interface for internet traffic from multiple users, like what we hear about the NSA doing at major internet hubs, but I assume a lot of work needs to be done to filter through information like that. I admit I don't have enough knowledge/experience/evidence/facts about networking, even though I did study computer engineering, but I will make an assumption (at least educated?) that if you have control over the lowest layer of routing you can get a lot more information about the activities taking place on the clients.
paul_f 12y ago
You don't own the bandwidth either.

by boyaka 12y ago

jamesbrownuhh 12y ago

Whoa! What? Who's "spying on people that are near you"? And incidentally, what part of "the property you own" is being used here? The cable modem, which isn't yours? The Comcast network, which you don't own? The wireless spectrum, over which you have no exclusivity? Your IP connectivity, which isn't affected? I find it baffling that people can be so hugely resistant to such harmless ideas. Seriously, where does that come from?

boyaka 12y ago
I assume there is motivation for these large ISPs to provide internet access (and thus additional bandwidth) for free at all of their customer's locations. I assume there is some sort of profit being made from it, and I assume it has something to do with finding out what/who is near these access points and maybe seeing what they are doing and feeding them different sorts of data based on that information. The property you own that they are utilizing is just that, your property, or your estate. They are using the land that you work your entire life to rent or own to scan mobile devices around it and gather information which they are profiting from. I just think it is a stretch to go from a simple cable modem (which customers could easily own, but they'd rather give away their natural right to control their own property for ease of use/access) which should just simply be providing access to the bandwidth you are paying for (like cable boxes would just provide you a connection to your TV channels of choice), to operating an internet service to anybody in your area.
- jamesbrownuhh 12y ago
  Your opening paragraph starts with four assumptions, none of which are backed up by any evidence. Why do you "assume" that Comcast are trying to "find out" who/what is near those access points? What cause have you to "assume" that they are "maybe seeing what they are doing"? What is the basis of your claim that they are using this as a way to 'scan mobile devices .. and gather information which they are profiting from'? What information? Profiting how? Without facts, what you're saying is indistinguishable from any other conspiracy theory. You say 'operating an internet service to anybody in your area' and in the main it's not "anybody" - it's Comcast customers. Of which you, if you are so affected, are likely to be one. Comcast using their equipment, their facilities, their network and their backhaul to operate an internet facility to THEIR customers. The long and the short of services like this is that people - where they have a choice - are more likely to choose, or stay with, or be happier paying for, an Internet Service Provider if they get more value from it. If your Comcast internet service suddenly comes with the ability to access that service from wifi hotspots throughout the town or city where you live [and there's a great chance of there being a significant number of such hotspots available in a locale served by a dominant cable operator] then you, as a Comcast customer, are likely to get a good value from that. Good value equals more and happier customers willing to keep paying the same or more. Simple business. No covert data-gathering and "seeing what people are doing" conspiracies required.
  - boyaka 12y ago
    I'm not just making up a cause for worrying about free hotspots...It may have been conspiracy talk but there has been discussion about the ethics behind them before. I think it's worth discussing what people are doing with the power to control people's access to internet, especially when it seems like Comcast is just shoving them into peoples homes. Fact: Once you have a XfinityWIFI added to your device and wifi turned on, you are automatically connecting to these hotspots. Lots of customers don't understand the implication of this, which is that Comcast knows where you are located. Fact: You can see a lot more information about devices connected to the an internet access point if you control the lowest routing layer. Just try hooking up a router into another router, and try seeing the devices connected to the first router on the second. Giving Comcast control of routing the internet connection available on your property is allowing them to see details about devices in the area, which they would not see if they were simply providing you a single connection to a router that you own. Sure, plenty of providers had wifi built into their modems (all those crappy 2WIRE things), but at the very least the customer is able to set a password and control who Comcast is able to see is near their property. With this service it just seems like Comcast is making all it's customer's homes a tracking point for everybody else. Why should customers be able to access the internet at random locations based on where other customers live? Isn't that what a mobile data connection is for? Sure, the more hotspots available the better, I guess, but if comcast wants to provide access to the internet it should create a technology that can do it without using other people's property/land/estate, and without being able to gather useful information about peoples' locations and maybe more detailed device and network traffic information. Also, I don't know much about analyzing a single network interface for internet traffic from multiple users, like what we hear about the NSA doing at major internet hubs, but I assume a lot of work needs to be done to filter through information like that. I admit I don't have enough knowledge/experience/evidence/facts about networking, even though I did study computer engineering, but I will make an assumption (at least educated?) that if you have control over the lowest layer of routing you can get a lot more information about the activities taking place on the clients.

paul_f 12y ago

You don't own the bandwidth either.