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> I'm shocked that Bill Gates drinks 3-4 Diet Cokes a day. Why? The caffeine, or the fact that it's Coke and not coffee or tea (or ...)? > at least with smoki

by shabble 12y ago

> I'm shocked that Bill Gates drinks 3-4 Diet Cokes a day. Why? The caffeine, or the fact that it's Coke and not coffee or tea (or ...)? > at least with smoking, there's a chemical dependency at play Diet Coke still contains caffeine (~50mg/can), which is generally considered to also cause physical dependence and withdrawal effects on abrupt cessation[1]. Granted, nicotine withdrawal is a lot worse, but serious caffeine fiends won't have a fun time of it for a few days, and it can be disruptive for several weeks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_addiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_addiction

latch 12y ago
I wasn't thinking about caffeine (but if that's the issue, tea or coffee seem like good alternative). I was thinking about the health issues its linked to (kidney problems, type 2 diabetes, dental issues, ...)
- gavinpc 12y ago
  It's the aspartame. You can decide for yourself whether it's poison, but it's definitely the reason many people regard diet sodas as such. EDIT, I guess this should have gone on parent. At any rate, latch, I had the exact same reaction. And this is a man with resources. (Indeed, maybe he drinks some secret power soda and just used Diet Coke to give it a plebian air. Maybe such details are even handled by his blogging software.)
- mikeash 12y ago
  Aren't those health problems avoided when drinking diet? Not that it's necessarily super healthy, but I thought sugar was the great enemy here.
  - josai 12y ago
    I'm not so sure. I'm certainly not an expert, but I have a private theory that the very sweetness of artificial sweeteners influences insulin release via some mechanism. Whether by "crying wolf" and promoting insulin resistance, or by some other means, I suspect there's some kind of message at play - "lots of sugar coming, blood, get ready!" - which then has a deleterious effect even when there's no actual sugar involved. Well, it's not very scientific, but I've arrived at this theory by a couple of observations. One in myself - I used to be a huge diet coke junkie, up to 10 cans a day sometimes, and I found it impossible to lose weight, plus I noticed that I got that "after sugar" feeling somehow from the drink. When I cut it out, plus everything else artificially sweet (I was barely consuming any sugar), my weight loss issues disappeared and I just felt .. much better. The other side of my anecdotal data comes from observing the same thing in friends. I know a few people who have gone pretty heavily low carb to lose weight, and I note a seeming correlation between success and cutting out sweet foods/drinks, no matter if they have sugar or not. OK, it's not exactly a double blind large-scale test, but nonetheless. I'm not the only one I know who thinks this either. A couple of the PTs at my gym have noticed the same thing, and advise their clients to cut everything sweet from their diet, fake sugar or not. And Tim Ferriss advises a maximum of one diet drink a day. So yeah, if you ask me (or the people above) - stay away from diet soft drinks and anything else sweet. I can't point to any large-scale studies, but over the years I've become pretty convinced there's something there.
    - 1stop 12y ago
      The reason you can't point to any large scale studies is because all of them found aspartame to be harmless, not induce an insulin response, etc (i.e the complete opposite of your theory). Diet coke hates are in the same category as anti-vacs campaigners... They don't believe in science.
      - josai 12y ago
        That was a needlessly hostile and insulting response. I'm merely pointing out some personal experiences, and made appropriate qualifications to that effect. And your blanket dismissal is doubtful anyway. Here's a study clearly indicating correlation between aspartame and insulin response: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/7/e59.full http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/7/e59.full Cephalic-phase insulin release is a known phenomenon and could obviously be triggered by expectation of a diet drink. Being skeptical of mainstream nutritional "science" (barely worthy of the name, IMO, and which has led to an unprecedented obesity epidemic) is in no way comparable to "anti-vaxxers". And frankly, if I noticed a very strong correlation between people I knew who'd been vaccinated and then all suddenly became autistic, I'd be asking questions too, and would be right to do so, and that spirit of skeptical enquiry is the very essence of science.
        1stop 12y ago
        Sorry, I didn't mean to be that hostile, and I seem to have continued that in my other responses. Apoligises to all. There is a lot of mis-information around artificial sweeteners, I think it just triggers my "Frustrated with the internet" nerve or something. I agree, be skeptical, question, don't take things at face value. But, I'd add: be informed, look up where we are at in current day research. Diabetic research is huge, it isn't generally something to be skeptical of, there are people who's lives are saved, preserved, made better because of that research. But again, sorry for being a dick. :)
        josai 12y ago
        Well, apology accepted I suppose. However.. > There is a lot of mis-information around artificial sweeteners Sure is. And perhaps you're contributing to it. You sure haven't produced any evidence that you're right and everyone else is wrong. > it just triggers my "Frustrated with the internet" Well, your belligerent responses to people's polite, reasonable comments kind of trigger that in me. Let's not be part of the problem... > look up where we are at in current day research There have been two studies linked to supporting the claims made by myself and others. You haven't posted anything. Take your own advice! > Diabetic research is huge, it isn't generally something to be skeptical of And yet we're living in an unprecedented, worldwide obesity epidemic. Someone is obviously very wrong about something. It's my personal belief that in 50 years we'll be looking back on current nutritional "science" the same way we look back on "healthy cigarettes" in the 60s. We'll get it right eventually, but we sure haven't yet. (edited for politeness)
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  I really need to do some digging, see if there are any relevant studies... see, I don't think I have met anyone with any particular issues, who drinks soda in moderation. Remember, the dose makes the poison.

by shabble 12y ago

latch 12y ago

I wasn't thinking about caffeine (but if that's the issue, tea or coffee seem like good alternative). I was thinking about the health issues its linked to (kidney problems, type 2 diabetes, dental issues, ...)

gavinpc 12y ago
It's the aspartame. You can decide for yourself whether it's poison, but it's definitely the reason many people regard diet sodas as such. EDIT, I guess this should have gone on parent. At any rate, latch, I had the exact same reaction. And this is a man with resources. (Indeed, maybe he drinks some secret power soda and just used Diet Coke to give it a plebian air. Maybe such details are even handled by his blogging software.)
mikeash 12y ago
Aren't those health problems avoided when drinking diet? Not that it's necessarily super healthy, but I thought sugar was the great enemy here.
- josai 12y ago
  I'm not so sure. I'm certainly not an expert, but I have a private theory that the very sweetness of artificial sweeteners influences insulin release via some mechanism. Whether by "crying wolf" and promoting insulin resistance, or by some other means, I suspect there's some kind of message at play - "lots of sugar coming, blood, get ready!" - which then has a deleterious effect even when there's no actual sugar involved. Well, it's not very scientific, but I've arrived at this theory by a couple of observations. One in myself - I used to be a huge diet coke junkie, up to 10 cans a day sometimes, and I found it impossible to lose weight, plus I noticed that I got that "after sugar" feeling somehow from the drink. When I cut it out, plus everything else artificially sweet (I was barely consuming any sugar), my weight loss issues disappeared and I just felt .. much better. The other side of my anecdotal data comes from observing the same thing in friends. I know a few people who have gone pretty heavily low carb to lose weight, and I note a seeming correlation between success and cutting out sweet foods/drinks, no matter if they have sugar or not. OK, it's not exactly a double blind large-scale test, but nonetheless. I'm not the only one I know who thinks this either. A couple of the PTs at my gym have noticed the same thing, and advise their clients to cut everything sweet from their diet, fake sugar or not. And Tim Ferriss advises a maximum of one diet drink a day. So yeah, if you ask me (or the people above) - stay away from diet soft drinks and anything else sweet. I can't point to any large-scale studies, but over the years I've become pretty convinced there's something there.
  - 1stop 12y ago
    The reason you can't point to any large scale studies is because all of them found aspartame to be harmless, not induce an insulin response, etc (i.e the complete opposite of your theory). Diet coke hates are in the same category as anti-vacs campaigners... They don't believe in science.
    - josai 12y ago
      That was a needlessly hostile and insulting response. I'm merely pointing out some personal experiences, and made appropriate qualifications to that effect. And your blanket dismissal is doubtful anyway. Here's a study clearly indicating correlation between aspartame and insulin response: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/7/e59.full http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/7/e59.full Cephalic-phase insulin release is a known phenomenon and could obviously be triggered by expectation of a diet drink. Being skeptical of mainstream nutritional "science" (barely worthy of the name, IMO, and which has led to an unprecedented obesity epidemic) is in no way comparable to "anti-vaxxers". And frankly, if I noticed a very strong correlation between people I knew who'd been vaccinated and then all suddenly became autistic, I'd be asking questions too, and would be right to do so, and that spirit of skeptical enquiry is the very essence of science.
      - 1stop 12y ago
        Sorry, I didn't mean to be that hostile, and I seem to have continued that in my other responses. Apoligises to all. There is a lot of mis-information around artificial sweeteners, I think it just triggers my "Frustrated with the internet" nerve or something. I agree, be skeptical, question, don't take things at face value. But, I'd add: be informed, look up where we are at in current day research. Diabetic research is huge, it isn't generally something to be skeptical of, there are people who's lives are saved, preserved, made better because of that research. But again, sorry for being a dick. :)
        josai 12y ago
        Well, apology accepted I suppose. However.. > There is a lot of mis-information around artificial sweeteners Sure is. And perhaps you're contributing to it. You sure haven't produced any evidence that you're right and everyone else is wrong. > it just triggers my "Frustrated with the internet" Well, your belligerent responses to people's polite, reasonable comments kind of trigger that in me. Let's not be part of the problem... > look up where we are at in current day research There have been two studies linked to supporting the claims made by myself and others. You haven't posted anything. Take your own advice! > Diabetic research is huge, it isn't generally something to be skeptical of And yet we're living in an unprecedented, worldwide obesity epidemic. Someone is obviously very wrong about something. It's my personal belief that in 50 years we'll be looking back on current nutritional "science" the same way we look back on "healthy cigarettes" in the 60s. We'll get it right eventually, but we sure haven't yet. (edited for politeness)
sliverstorm 12y ago
I really need to do some digging, see if there are any relevant studies... see, I don't think I have met anyone with any particular issues, who drinks soda in moderation. Remember, the dose makes the poison.