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I teach programming classes at my kid's K-8 school. I was looking for fun ways to teach Javascript and took a long hard look at Code Combat but ultimately had

by patja 12y ago

I teach programming classes at my kid's K-8 school. I was looking for fun ways to teach Javascript and took a long hard look at Code Combat but ultimately had to reject it. It might be a good option for an elective course or after school program, but I was teaching a class that 100% of students were required to take. The focus on killing and violence simply would not fly for all students or in the context of a required curriculum. I am guessing maybe 75% of the students would love it, but the remainder would be marginalized and I am sure I would get some parent complaints.

robbiep 12y ago
Wow, has education really become that pc?
- mopedDreams 12y ago
  I don't think the issue is political correctness... I think it is more about creating an inclusive, gender-neutral curriculum that doesn't marginalise girls. I agree that this game looks amazing, but would not be engaging to 100% of students, in the same way that a football game wouldn't be. As for complaints, I think it's important to respect some parents' wishes for their kids not to play games that include killing. Although most parents wouldn't complain.
  - moonchrome 12y ago
    So you're saying it's not about PC and then arguing how it violates political correctness and therefore shouldn't be used ? Something that would get 75% of your students involved sounds like a huge win compared to standard curriculum programs, as soon as a class is required it's going to involve people that have 0 interest in it from start.
    - mopedDreams 12y ago
      I didn't say it violates PC, I said it isn't inclusive. And aiming for 75% engagement is an awful teaching strategy. I do however agree that a required class does pose an engagement challenge. Computer Science will be a compulsory subject for UK school kids from September.
  - patja 12y ago
    Spot on. With so many choices out there for ways to introduce coding, I try to pick the ones that can engage everyone. Scratch for example. I teach a lesson on "projectiles" with Scratch where we explore methods of aiming, launching, detecting collisions, scoring, power-ups, shields, etc. The boys all launch right into building SWAT team versus Ninjas shooting games, while the girls build a game about shooting soccer balls at a goal. Same learning happens, but they get to come to it on their own terms rather than a one-size-doesn't-fit-all "plug the orc full of arrows" objective. It is easy to marginalize this as bowing to political correctness. What brings it home for me is the actual classroom experience where you can visibly see a significant portion of the class tune out with the reaction "this is not for me" if you start to focus on shooting, exploding, killing etc. With Scratch I can build lessons around music, art, and storytelling that teach the same programming fundamentals and are much more engaging to the girls who don't play FPS or RPG shoot-em-up games. Those inclined in that direction always find ways to introduce some explosions and blood into their projects, so it is not really at the expense of their experience. I raised these concerns to the CodeCombat team on their forums several months ago when I first looked at their offering. They acknowledged that their platform could be used to design non-violent activities, and maybe they have done so by now. I could see how they could build some resource gathering or other missions that don't require killing.
    - sejje 12y ago
      So exactly like "gold rush" then? http://codecombat.com/play/ladder/gold-rush http://codecombat.com/play/ladder/gold-rush
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  There is PC and there is the practical matters of engaging a group of students. Make no mistake, that's one of the hardest things about teaching, and if the GP says it's a bad idea, it very well might be. Imagine a policy at your workplace that would alienate 25% of your co-workers, maybe even making them actively resent you. Would you still think it's a good idea?
  - robbiep 12y ago
    Sure, I can understand that. But has the world really become such a place that role playing a medieval/fantasy world is banned? Will the only books of the future available to study in an educational environment become grey monotonous tomes expounding at great length on neutral values? Is it the idea of violence that is the issue or the fact that it exists at all I guess is the question. I have no experience with this so am just trying to gauge how these things work in parts of the world.
    - patja 12y ago
      I would never ever propose banning something like CodeCombat. Personally I love it and think the world is better for its existence. Heck, I am one of those boys who loves RPG and FPS games. I also know they are not what motivates or engages my daughters and their friends. You don't have to go down to grey monotonous pablum as a lowest common denominator method of getting kids interested in technology, but you also don't want to just turn off a big chunk of your audience, especially when they are at age 10 - 13.

by patja 12y ago

robbiep 12y ago

Wow, has education really become that pc?

mopedDreams 12y ago
I don't think the issue is political correctness... I think it is more about creating an inclusive, gender-neutral curriculum that doesn't marginalise girls. I agree that this game looks amazing, but would not be engaging to 100% of students, in the same way that a football game wouldn't be. As for complaints, I think it's important to respect some parents' wishes for their kids not to play games that include killing. Although most parents wouldn't complain.
- moonchrome 12y ago
  So you're saying it's not about PC and then arguing how it violates political correctness and therefore shouldn't be used ? Something that would get 75% of your students involved sounds like a huge win compared to standard curriculum programs, as soon as a class is required it's going to involve people that have 0 interest in it from start.
  - mopedDreams 12y ago
    I didn't say it violates PC, I said it isn't inclusive. And aiming for 75% engagement is an awful teaching strategy. I do however agree that a required class does pose an engagement challenge. Computer Science will be a compulsory subject for UK school kids from September.
- patja 12y ago
  Spot on. With so many choices out there for ways to introduce coding, I try to pick the ones that can engage everyone. Scratch for example. I teach a lesson on "projectiles" with Scratch where we explore methods of aiming, launching, detecting collisions, scoring, power-ups, shields, etc. The boys all launch right into building SWAT team versus Ninjas shooting games, while the girls build a game about shooting soccer balls at a goal. Same learning happens, but they get to come to it on their own terms rather than a one-size-doesn't-fit-all "plug the orc full of arrows" objective. It is easy to marginalize this as bowing to political correctness. What brings it home for me is the actual classroom experience where you can visibly see a significant portion of the class tune out with the reaction "this is not for me" if you start to focus on shooting, exploding, killing etc. With Scratch I can build lessons around music, art, and storytelling that teach the same programming fundamentals and are much more engaging to the girls who don't play FPS or RPG shoot-em-up games. Those inclined in that direction always find ways to introduce some explosions and blood into their projects, so it is not really at the expense of their experience. I raised these concerns to the CodeCombat team on their forums several months ago when I first looked at their offering. They acknowledged that their platform could be used to design non-violent activities, and maybe they have done so by now. I could see how they could build some resource gathering or other missions that don't require killing.
  - sejje 12y ago
    So exactly like "gold rush" then? http://codecombat.com/play/ladder/gold-rush http://codecombat.com/play/ladder/gold-rush
IgorPartola 12y ago
There is PC and there is the practical matters of engaging a group of students. Make no mistake, that's one of the hardest things about teaching, and if the GP says it's a bad idea, it very well might be. Imagine a policy at your workplace that would alienate 25% of your co-workers, maybe even making them actively resent you. Would you still think it's a good idea?
- robbiep 12y ago
  Sure, I can understand that. But has the world really become such a place that role playing a medieval/fantasy world is banned? Will the only books of the future available to study in an educational environment become grey monotonous tomes expounding at great length on neutral values? Is it the idea of violence that is the issue or the fact that it exists at all I guess is the question. I have no experience with this so am just trying to gauge how these things work in parts of the world.
  - patja 12y ago
    I would never ever propose banning something like CodeCombat. Personally I love it and think the world is better for its existence. Heck, I am one of those boys who loves RPG and FPS games. I also know they are not what motivates or engages my daughters and their friends. You don't have to go down to grey monotonous pablum as a lowest common denominator method of getting kids interested in technology, but you also don't want to just turn off a big chunk of your audience, especially when they are at age 10 - 13.