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Great post. I wonder whether organizations like YC might consider offering compensation for seeing a therapist during and after their batch, and even perhaps go

by sinak 12y ago

Great post. I wonder whether organizations like YC might consider offering compensation for seeing a therapist during and after their batch, and even perhaps going as far as recommending a particular local therapist. I've experienced depression while running a startup, and seeing a therapist was immensely helpful. A therapist who regularly sees founders as clients would have a stronger-than-usual feedback loop on what sorts of advice and recommendations can help. Edit: While I think the advice of talking to other founders about depression is really excellent for those who have that option, I think back to when I've experienced depression and wonder whether it would have helped. Specifically I'm not sure I was even in a state to be able to act upon that advice. Generally my sense of self-worth was so deflated that it was very difficult to discuss it with anyone, and particularly anyone who I wasn't close friends with. Beyond my co-founders, few of my close friends were entrepreneurs.

hippich 12y ago
wtf is that? yes, depression is bad, but YC should compensate treatment? Entrepreneurship is hard, everyone says that. So you should either expect to deal with consequences or not even get started. What kinda entrepreneur will graduate from YC if they have to be kinder-gardened?
- balor123 12y ago
  Humans are, unsurprisingly, human. To understand why a proposal like this makes sense, you first need to accept that statement.
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  Are you equating seeing a counsellor with being kindergartened?
  - hippich 12y ago
    Kinda in this case. What people ask next? Guaranteed employment if their super new idea fail?
    - sillysaurus3 12y ago
      You have obviously never dealt with depression. Harsher words are unnecessary, so I'll leave them out. Anyone who's reading this: If you're feeling depressed, do not feel any shame whatsoever in seeking a counsellor. Having someone external to your life to talk to is vital.
      - hippich 12y ago
        sillysaurus3, two things: - if you are so sensitive (especially to random comment on interwebs), you should see specialist BEFORE you even start thinking about entrepreneurship. And make sure your doctor says "yes, you are good to go". - Yes, i never been through awful depressions. But I been in situation which probably could trigger it. I knew what I am doing, what I am capable of and that I can man it up. It is ok to seek specialist attention, but then you are not ready for real world yet. It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. C'mon. You guys too spoiled here in USA.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago
        man it up. This is the same phrase that someone once used to tell Aaron Swartz to deal with his problems. Yes, i never been through awful depression It is ok to seek specialist attention, but then you are not ready for real world yet. It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. If you've never been through depression, you shouldn't speak as if you know whether someone is spoiled or haunted. I'm upset that comments like yours might contribute to people feeling embarrassed for seeking out someone to talk to. Luckily, those who read these comments are smarter than that.
        tptacek 12y ago
        Wouldn't we all be better off if this sub-thread just ended here?
        hippich 12y ago
        seek all help you need. i do not see problem with that. just don't try to run a distance while not being ready for it. or, more accurate, run it, but expect failure and be ready to go through it to get better at running. and don't think YC or anybody also somehow owe you for failing. failing IS norm.
- paulannesley 12y ago
  “Might consider” vs “should”. There's insane cash and bullshit perks flying around the industry, why not something that genuinely helps the people behind the business, and likely the business itself.
  - hippich 12y ago
    As a hidden/unofficial perk - may be I would agree. But I doubt they would want attract candidate with that kind of perk (I wouldn't.)
- norswap 12y ago
  Maybe the well-adjusted kind. But to be honest, this is a false dichotomy. One shouldn't have to choose between being an hardened veteran or going through therapy. There should be (there is?) a path to entrepreneurship that does not involve unnecessary suffering. Maybe it's a question of outlook.
  - hippich 12y ago
    Not everybody make a fortune doing entrepreneurship and that's why it is hard. If you are psychologically weak and can't man it up - make adjustments and put some cash aside for therapy or living without job for few months.
    - kyro 12y ago
      And you work for an education company?
      - hippich 12y ago
        yes, and how this matter?
    - theworst 12y ago
      Your comments in this thread are illogical, antiquated, and misogynistic. Illogical -- "Not everybody make a fortune doing entrepreneurship and that's why it's hard." It's hard because not everybody gets rich? No, it's hard because you're doing something difficult; the difficulty level has nothing to do with getting rich. Many people work on startups for reasons other than cashing in. Antiquated -- suffering depression, in no way, makes you "psychologically weak". Misogynistic -- life tip: if you find yourself using the phrase, "man up", you should reconsider your entire personality. For the record, I'm currently in one of the downswings of the startup roller coaster ride, and am suffering from depression. You know nothing about me, or my situation, but offer your anti-sympathetic comment regardless. Seriously, please rethink your opinions. Or, at the very least, stop sharing your thoughts. To anyone else suffering from mental health issues, especially while running a startup, I strongly suggest internalizing this line: "Failing sucks—there is no way to sugarcoat that. But startups are not life-and-death matters—it’s just work." Then find a person (therapist, significant other, family, friends) who can offer you support. Someone who is as sympathetic as hippich is ignorant.
- mchusma 12y ago
  I think maybe your response was more to the term "compensate". "Compensate" sort of implied to me that YC would be somehow liable for mental damages. I think what he/she meant to say was "provide therapy/counseling services at no charge to entreprenuership."
  - hippich 12y ago
    Yes, I see problem in trying to shift responsibility to YC. But I do not see how your second part is any different? It seems essentially the same, except that wanna-be-entrepreneur would not pay for it out of pocket right away and get compensated later.
- hippich 12y ago
  I hope you sensitive guys had your therapy with down-voting me and now feel better that you "won" something :))
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    >It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. C'mon. You guys too spoiled here in USA. You got downvoted because statements like this don't belong on HN, especially in a post specifically discussing depression and the value of counseling and therapy in treating it. Edit: I will add, I didn't downvote you but I'm really not sure what you were expecting.
    - hippich 12y ago
      Oh, I wasn't kidding myself, I was expecting down votes. I just noticed that some my less "hurting" comments were down voted too, so I guess someone was just letting steam go ofg on all my comments here, including the one you replied to :) And I don't think these down votes had something to do with comment not belonging here, rather it hit people too close and they let their feelings go. And fun fact - first 5 or so minutes this comment was up voted, so some people here actually share thoughts. Don't just assume something not belong here if it is just you and few other people think so. I did not really intend to say that counseling by itself is something to be ashamed of (what many assumed is,) but rather that it is wrong to expect that organization like YC should provide counseling, and attracting less business capable people. I don't believe there is lack of people who are ready to challenges.
cgriswald 12y ago
In the particular case of founders it may be that simply having others (outside their fellow founders) to talk to about their problems might stem off the depression in the first place. Isolation is great for causing depression, especially in the presence of all kinds of stresses and pressures. Once it passes into depression it simply doesn't matter whether it is "founder depression" or any other kind of depression. For true, major depression, therapy is an absolute must. Pharmaceuticals may also help in the short term. Anything else, including all the awesome people offering an ear in this thread, need to be in support of the professional help.
leorocky 12y ago
> I wonder whether organizations like YC might consider offering compensation for seeing a therapist. YC is not an employer of founders. It's just an investor. They don't give founders money on a regular basis. They do help you find other investors but other than that just give you the usual dose of probably non-applicable advice that might not help you much. The main benefit of getting into YC is saying that you got into YC and a Techcrunch article.

by sinak 12y ago

hippich 12y ago

wtf is that? yes, depression is bad, but YC should compensate treatment? Entrepreneurship is hard, everyone says that. So you should either expect to deal with consequences or not even get started. What kinda entrepreneur will graduate from YC if they have to be kinder-gardened?

balor123 12y ago
Humans are, unsurprisingly, human. To understand why a proposal like this makes sense, you first need to accept that statement.
sillysaurus3 12y ago
Are you equating seeing a counsellor with being kindergartened?
- hippich 12y ago
  Kinda in this case. What people ask next? Guaranteed employment if their super new idea fail?
  - sillysaurus3 12y ago
    You have obviously never dealt with depression. Harsher words are unnecessary, so I'll leave them out. Anyone who's reading this: If you're feeling depressed, do not feel any shame whatsoever in seeking a counsellor. Having someone external to your life to talk to is vital.
    - hippich 12y ago
      sillysaurus3, two things: - if you are so sensitive (especially to random comment on interwebs), you should see specialist BEFORE you even start thinking about entrepreneurship. And make sure your doctor says "yes, you are good to go". - Yes, i never been through awful depressions. But I been in situation which probably could trigger it. I knew what I am doing, what I am capable of and that I can man it up. It is ok to seek specialist attention, but then you are not ready for real world yet. It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. C'mon. You guys too spoiled here in USA.
      - sillysaurus3 12y ago
        man it up. This is the same phrase that someone once used to tell Aaron Swartz to deal with his problems. Yes, i never been through awful depression It is ok to seek specialist attention, but then you are not ready for real world yet. It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. If you've never been through depression, you shouldn't speak as if you know whether someone is spoiled or haunted. I'm upset that comments like yours might contribute to people feeling embarrassed for seeking out someone to talk to. Luckily, those who read these comments are smarter than that.
        tptacek 12y ago
        Wouldn't we all be better off if this sub-thread just ended here?
        hippich 12y ago
        seek all help you need. i do not see problem with that. just don't try to run a distance while not being ready for it. or, more accurate, run it, but expect failure and be ready to go through it to get better at running. and don't think YC or anybody also somehow owe you for failing. failing IS norm.
paulannesley 12y ago
“Might consider” vs “should”. There's insane cash and bullshit perks flying around the industry, why not something that genuinely helps the people behind the business, and likely the business itself.
- hippich 12y ago
  As a hidden/unofficial perk - may be I would agree. But I doubt they would want attract candidate with that kind of perk (I wouldn't.)
norswap 12y ago
Maybe the well-adjusted kind. But to be honest, this is a false dichotomy. One shouldn't have to choose between being an hardened veteran or going through therapy. There should be (there is?) a path to entrepreneurship that does not involve unnecessary suffering. Maybe it's a question of outlook.
- hippich 12y ago
  Not everybody make a fortune doing entrepreneurship and that's why it is hard. If you are psychologically weak and can't man it up - make adjustments and put some cash aside for therapy or living without job for few months.
  - kyro 12y ago
    And you work for an education company?
    - hippich 12y ago
      yes, and how this matter?
  - theworst 12y ago
    Your comments in this thread are illogical, antiquated, and misogynistic. Illogical -- "Not everybody make a fortune doing entrepreneurship and that's why it's hard." It's hard because not everybody gets rich? No, it's hard because you're doing something difficult; the difficulty level has nothing to do with getting rich. Many people work on startups for reasons other than cashing in. Antiquated -- suffering depression, in no way, makes you "psychologically weak". Misogynistic -- life tip: if you find yourself using the phrase, "man up", you should reconsider your entire personality. For the record, I'm currently in one of the downswings of the startup roller coaster ride, and am suffering from depression. You know nothing about me, or my situation, but offer your anti-sympathetic comment regardless. Seriously, please rethink your opinions. Or, at the very least, stop sharing your thoughts. To anyone else suffering from mental health issues, especially while running a startup, I strongly suggest internalizing this line: "Failing sucks—there is no way to sugarcoat that. But startups are not life-and-death matters—it’s just work." Then find a person (therapist, significant other, family, friends) who can offer you support. Someone who is as sympathetic as hippich is ignorant.
mchusma 12y ago
I think maybe your response was more to the term "compensate". "Compensate" sort of implied to me that YC would be somehow liable for mental damages. I think what he/she meant to say was "provide therapy/counseling services at no charge to entreprenuership."
- hippich 12y ago
  Yes, I see problem in trying to shift responsibility to YC. But I do not see how your second part is any different? It seems essentially the same, except that wanna-be-entrepreneur would not pay for it out of pocket right away and get compensated later.
hippich 12y ago
I hope you sensitive guys had your therapy with down-voting me and now feel better that you "won" something :))
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  >It is like 300lbs fat kid will seek counseling because he can't withstand failures on a track. C'mon. You guys too spoiled here in USA. You got downvoted because statements like this don't belong on HN, especially in a post specifically discussing depression and the value of counseling and therapy in treating it. Edit: I will add, I didn't downvote you but I'm really not sure what you were expecting.
  - hippich 12y ago
    Oh, I wasn't kidding myself, I was expecting down votes. I just noticed that some my less "hurting" comments were down voted too, so I guess someone was just letting steam go ofg on all my comments here, including the one you replied to :) And I don't think these down votes had something to do with comment not belonging here, rather it hit people too close and they let their feelings go. And fun fact - first 5 or so minutes this comment was up voted, so some people here actually share thoughts. Don't just assume something not belong here if it is just you and few other people think so. I did not really intend to say that counseling by itself is something to be ashamed of (what many assumed is,) but rather that it is wrong to expect that organization like YC should provide counseling, and attracting less business capable people. I don't believe there is lack of people who are ready to challenges.

cgriswald 12y ago

In the particular case of founders it may be that simply having others (outside their fellow founders) to talk to about their problems might stem off the depression in the first place. Isolation is great for causing depression, especially in the presence of all kinds of stresses and pressures. Once it passes into depression it simply doesn't matter whether it is "founder depression" or any other kind of depression. For true, major depression, therapy is an absolute must. Pharmaceuticals may also help in the short term. Anything else, including all the awesome people offering an ear in this thread, need to be in support of the professional help.

leorocky 12y ago

> I wonder whether organizations like YC might consider offering compensation for seeing a therapist. YC is not an employer of founders. It's just an investor. They don't give founders money on a regular basis. They do help you find other investors but other than that just give you the usual dose of probably non-applicable advice that might not help you much. The main benefit of getting into YC is saying that you got into YC and a Techcrunch article.