4 ms·

Tangential but for peeps who're in their late 20's and early 30's in tech, do you feel like we have peaked and now are in the decline? When I first got out of

Tangential but for peeps who're in their late 20's and early 30's in tech, do you feel like we have peaked and now are in the decline? When I first got out of school, was feeling like a shiny new penny as most of my other peeps were going for law school or doing their gap year in life sciences or other prep for graduate school. Basically leading life as struggling students. So relatively, I had relative high spending power, living in the city with discretionary income and splurging it on un-necessary latte /gastro-pub/trendy lounges and going to feel-good rock-climbing/hiking trips on weekends (posted on FB obviously) and believing in the mission of the startup/corporation same as mine. Now in my late 20's, I feel like both my programmer peers' buying power and personal power are waning. Financially, most of my friends who're going for medicine and law are now in residency/associate training and will soon over take me in earnings. For my friends in finance/ management/accounting, there is a well-defined path to promotion where I feel like I have capped out and they're gonna start making more and having more power in comapnies. Applying to accelerators and doing hackathons and making business cards for startup's seem awfully empty to me now. In terms of personal agency, my friends who have pursued graduate research are wrapping their degrees and are either going for post-doc's or joining industry as Associate Scientists doing much more self-directed research than the off-the-shelf web CRUD and "Big Data" that I'm doing. My friends who are musicians or artists or film-makers, albeit still poor are pushing out their albums and films in festivals and galleries; not so much critical success but having something they made by themselves and persevered to show for. I just made a bunch of cogs tick in a number of corporations and a few vanity project that I call "startup's." I feel like I followed the cult of PG kinda of like the cool kids in high school have followed the cult of "cheerleaders and football QB" and bought in the hype. When I don't really care about consumer web, whether Angular.js or Macaw or whatever is next is better than Backbone.js, or the next message queue performance metric's or the next startup mantra about "pivoting" and "increasing your luck surface area" so all I was doing was looking for personal validation or trying to get rich without a cause. Oh well, youth is wasted on the young and I hope to learn and from this experience to recoup my loss.

BSousa 12y ago
Not really, but I guess depends on where you live. I'm from Portugal. Programmers here are seen as normal white collar jobs and paid not much more than other white collar jobs, and probably peaking (earning wise) at about the same as them. If you go for a normal company and not a startup, the path to management is usually quite clear as well. Doctors make more (2x-10x depending on experience/specialty) and lawyers is so so. But here it is still probably one of the professions that have less unemployment (and salaries are almost always higher than the average) But in other areas, London, NY, SF, you can probably see programmers being much higher in the pay scale compared to doctors and most lawyers (remember, most don't go to the top firms, only very few). But the advantage you as a programmer have compared to your peers is that it is much easier to supplement your income or find another job.
coolsunglasses 12y ago
>I just made a bunch of cogs tick in a number of corporations and a few vanity project that I call "startup's." Considered contributing to open source? I teach and write libraries. Gives me that nice "I made this" feeling. Career-boosting too.
- GFischer 12y ago
  How did you get into teaching? I'm interested - although I will have to work on my exposition / pedagogic skills (that's why they say the teacher learns the most in classes :) ).
  - coolsunglasses 12y ago
    https://twitter.com/bitemyapp https://twitter.com/bitemyapp I offer to teach people online and I have an IRC channel called #haskell-beginners on Freenode. People go through my course: https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell And when they get stuck, they ask questions. I'll begin giving local classes soon. I'm giving a talk the 19th in Austin.
encoderer 12y ago
I think possibly you are lacking imagination :) There are many career paths, some very lucrative, and it's not just the awful "be a sharepoint consultant" BS. For starters, if you look at Glassdoor, an engineer with experience can get a job w/ a wealthy tech company making $175k+/yr, with your base salary at $130k+. And it goes up from there. This essentially matches my own experience hiring in this market and talking to others that hire. And if you hold some of that $45k+/yr RSU grant, you are likely to see appreciation. There is a lot of misconception. Just last night I was at a popular pizza place in a popular SF neighborhood and beside me sat a table full of guys, mid 20s or so. One guy said, basically, "companies aren't paying more than the low 100s for engineers" and everybody seemed to agree with that. My first instinct is, let me make you a job offer! The truth is, there is a lot of money to be made in tech. People always focus on early stage, lotto-ticket equity. It's easy to overlook that there are MANY publicly traded (or pre-ipo) companies that are hiring engineers, paying handsome base salaries and generous RSU grants. All that said, it's not all about the money. I don't mean to suggest it is.
personlurking 12y ago
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'peaked' (in popularity? learning trajectory? potential?) but as a long-time expat getting by in a few different countries, I took a different path than everyone else I know and I feel that my best is yet to come (being a life-long learner helps). I had friends in my early-mid 20s who pretended they were 'on the up-and-up, doing big things', but that was mostly because they came from wealthy families. I never compared myself with them, though, nor with anyone (something I think everyone should learn how to do). All I can say is I've heard several times from middle-aged people that one's 30s and 40s are way better than one's 20s. Being in my early 30s, I feel more comfortable in my own skin, making decisions and being totally okay with the choices I make in the day-to-day.
philangist 12y ago
I think the problem here is that you were spending too much time comparing yourself to your peers. Instead of being happy for their success, you're seeing it as devaluing your own worth. Is the point of having a high paying 9-5 making more money than your friends, or is it about having the the ability to dictate what you can do in your spare time? And is the point of pursuing things in your spare time and time (like rock-climbing/hiking/taveling/doing cocaine off hookers) to show off on Facebook or for personal enjoyment and betterment? I recently saw an interview with Dave Chappelle where he said that "money is the fuel of choices" and I think he nailed it.
- bartonfink 12y ago
  I've heard it said "money doesn't buy happiness, but it does buy options."
marincounty 12y ago
"Now in my late 20's, I feel like both my programmer peers' buying power and personal power are waning. Financially, most of my friends who're going for medicine and law are now in residency/associate training and will soon over take me in earnings." I think you are being too hard on yourself. What I don't understand in the start-up/programming is the insistence on hiring youth. Personally, I feel some companies need a little more maturity on the payroll?
- owenmarshall 12y ago
  > What I don't understand in the start-up/programming is the insistence on hiring youth. Personally, I feel some companies need a little more maturity on the payroll? It's easier to convince a dev in their early 20s that suicide overtime is a good idea. You can also call them a "junior developer" and pay them less. And they often don't have pesky things like families to go home to, kids that need braces, or medical ailments that raise insurance premiums.
analyst74 12y ago
"in tech" is a very large spectrum of industries, positions and earning power. A programmer at the age of 30 is probably not on a decline, but will definitely not see any major pay bump in the future; A consultant is probably just at the beginning of a consulting career; A mid-level manager has probably just established a foothold in the corporate pyramid, and there is a long way up; A founder is probably hoping for (more)success in the future; The CEO of Facebook may be at his peak now, but he probably doesn't care.
bcbrown 12y ago
I just turned 31 last week. Life has been getting better every year. Work is more fulfilling, my skills are improving, my social life is good, and I'm finding new hobbies and pursuits to explore and learn. What I notice in what you write is that you're always comparing yourself to others. Yes, I have friends and acquaintances who are more successful, in terms of money, responsibility, and prestige. I'm happy for them. After the initial envious thought passes, it doesn't make me feel worse-off. A quote I like: "If you define your self-worth in comparison to other people, you're building your house on sand."
wsc981 12y ago
"Tangential but for peeps who're in their late 20's and early 30's in tech, do you feel like we have peaked and now are in the decline?" I'm 32 and don't feel I've peaked yet, but there's still much I'd like to achieve and also I enjoy keep learning myself new things. Every year I watch the QuakeCon keynote of John Carmack and to me he's a reminder that I don't have to reach my peak until I choose to :)
mtdewcmu 12y ago
Huh. I think you were probably a victim of the 90's tech boom. I probably would have majored in computer science anyway, but I turned 20 in 2000, and things certainly looked more promising up until the crash. I can see that you have talented friends. Being, say, an artist can be a hard life. There are plenty of scientists that regret taking that path. So, who can say if you made the right choice, but those other paths were far from a sure thing.

BSousa 12y ago

Not really, but I guess depends on where you live. I'm from Portugal. Programmers here are seen as normal white collar jobs and paid not much more than other white collar jobs, and probably peaking (earning wise) at about the same as them. If you go for a normal company and not a startup, the path to management is usually quite clear as well. Doctors make more (2x-10x depending on experience/specialty) and lawyers is so so. But here it is still probably one of the professions that have less unemployment (and salaries are almost always higher than the average) But in other areas, London, NY, SF, you can probably see programmers being much higher in the pay scale compared to doctors and most lawyers (remember, most don't go to the top firms, only very few). But the advantage you as a programmer have compared to your peers is that it is much easier to supplement your income or find another job.

coolsunglasses 12y ago

>I just made a bunch of cogs tick in a number of corporations and a few vanity project that I call "startup's." Considered contributing to open source? I teach and write libraries. Gives me that nice "I made this" feeling. Career-boosting too.

GFischer 12y ago
How did you get into teaching? I'm interested - although I will have to work on my exposition / pedagogic skills (that's why they say the teacher learns the most in classes :) ).
- coolsunglasses 12y ago
  https://twitter.com/bitemyapp https://twitter.com/bitemyapp I offer to teach people online and I have an IRC channel called #haskell-beginners on Freenode. People go through my course: https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell And when they get stuck, they ask questions. I'll begin giving local classes soon. I'm giving a talk the 19th in Austin.

encoderer 12y ago

I think possibly you are lacking imagination :) There are many career paths, some very lucrative, and it's not just the awful "be a sharepoint consultant" BS. For starters, if you look at Glassdoor, an engineer with experience can get a job w/ a wealthy tech company making $175k+/yr, with your base salary at $130k+. And it goes up from there. This essentially matches my own experience hiring in this market and talking to others that hire. And if you hold some of that $45k+/yr RSU grant, you are likely to see appreciation. There is a lot of misconception. Just last night I was at a popular pizza place in a popular SF neighborhood and beside me sat a table full of guys, mid 20s or so. One guy said, basically, "companies aren't paying more than the low 100s for engineers" and everybody seemed to agree with that. My first instinct is, let me make you a job offer! The truth is, there is a lot of money to be made in tech. People always focus on early stage, lotto-ticket equity. It's easy to overlook that there are MANY publicly traded (or pre-ipo) companies that are hiring engineers, paying handsome base salaries and generous RSU grants. All that said, it's not all about the money. I don't mean to suggest it is.

personlurking 12y ago

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'peaked' (in popularity? learning trajectory? potential?) but as a long-time expat getting by in a few different countries, I took a different path than everyone else I know and I feel that my best is yet to come (being a life-long learner helps). I had friends in my early-mid 20s who pretended they were 'on the up-and-up, doing big things', but that was mostly because they came from wealthy families. I never compared myself with them, though, nor with anyone (something I think everyone should learn how to do). All I can say is I've heard several times from middle-aged people that one's 30s and 40s are way better than one's 20s. Being in my early 30s, I feel more comfortable in my own skin, making decisions and being totally okay with the choices I make in the day-to-day.

philangist 12y ago

I think the problem here is that you were spending too much time comparing yourself to your peers. Instead of being happy for their success, you're seeing it as devaluing your own worth. Is the point of having a high paying 9-5 making more money than your friends, or is it about having the the ability to dictate what you can do in your spare time? And is the point of pursuing things in your spare time and time (like rock-climbing/hiking/taveling/doing cocaine off hookers) to show off on Facebook or for personal enjoyment and betterment? I recently saw an interview with Dave Chappelle where he said that "money is the fuel of choices" and I think he nailed it.

bartonfink 12y ago
I've heard it said "money doesn't buy happiness, but it does buy options."

marincounty 12y ago

"Now in my late 20's, I feel like both my programmer peers' buying power and personal power are waning. Financially, most of my friends who're going for medicine and law are now in residency/associate training and will soon over take me in earnings." I think you are being too hard on yourself. What I don't understand in the start-up/programming is the insistence on hiring youth. Personally, I feel some companies need a little more maturity on the payroll?

owenmarshall 12y ago
> What I don't understand in the start-up/programming is the insistence on hiring youth. Personally, I feel some companies need a little more maturity on the payroll? It's easier to convince a dev in their early 20s that suicide overtime is a good idea. You can also call them a "junior developer" and pay them less. And they often don't have pesky things like families to go home to, kids that need braces, or medical ailments that raise insurance premiums.

analyst74 12y ago

"in tech" is a very large spectrum of industries, positions and earning power. A programmer at the age of 30 is probably not on a decline, but will definitely not see any major pay bump in the future; A consultant is probably just at the beginning of a consulting career; A mid-level manager has probably just established a foothold in the corporate pyramid, and there is a long way up; A founder is probably hoping for (more)success in the future; The CEO of Facebook may be at his peak now, but he probably doesn't care.

bcbrown 12y ago

I just turned 31 last week. Life has been getting better every year. Work is more fulfilling, my skills are improving, my social life is good, and I'm finding new hobbies and pursuits to explore and learn. What I notice in what you write is that you're always comparing yourself to others. Yes, I have friends and acquaintances who are more successful, in terms of money, responsibility, and prestige. I'm happy for them. After the initial envious thought passes, it doesn't make me feel worse-off. A quote I like: "If you define your self-worth in comparison to other people, you're building your house on sand."

wsc981 12y ago

"Tangential but for peeps who're in their late 20's and early 30's in tech, do you feel like we have peaked and now are in the decline?" I'm 32 and don't feel I've peaked yet, but there's still much I'd like to achieve and also I enjoy keep learning myself new things. Every year I watch the QuakeCon keynote of John Carmack and to me he's a reminder that I don't have to reach my peak until I choose to :)

mtdewcmu 12y ago

Huh. I think you were probably a victim of the 90's tech boom. I probably would have majored in computer science anyway, but I turned 20 in 2000, and things certainly looked more promising up until the crash. I can see that you have talented friends. Being, say, an artist can be a hard life. There are plenty of scientists that regret taking that path. So, who can say if you made the right choice, but those other paths were far from a sure thing.