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Please don't make everybody appreciate this story of grief. Everybody who is aware of this now is really sorry for Erics loss. We will accept that cancer is bad

by cessor 12y ago

Please don't make everybody appreciate this story of grief. Everybody who is aware of this now is really sorry for Erics loss. We will accept that cancer is bad. We accept that your daughter dying at this very young age is tragic. But we all will suffer loss in our lives, most of us when our parents die. Making one's daughters death public like this is arrogant und unfair. It lifts his loss over the ones that we ourselves will have to suffer. We are not even allowed to discuss this rationally, because of the strength of the emotion. I do not support this "movement", hashtag or thing in general, and I feel emotionally molested. Edit: Happy downvoting. My grandma killed herself at the age of 86 with a plastic bag. I am claiming IngeborgCreamBeige.

Zikes 12y ago
Eric is not the person making this request, and thus far has only shared the circumstances of his daughter's death with people that know or follow him.
- cessor 12y ago
  Eric might not be the active agent in this, and I understand the context. Wether Eric feels addressed by this or the person behind the hashtag, I believe that my argument becomes clear.
fixermark 12y ago
"Stop making your loss public; it's not more important than the losses in my life" is an argument I don't hear often. I can see some merit in it, but it sounds like a counter-argument to functionally any form of public funeral or acknowledgement of death. Couldn't this reasoning be applied as criticism for the funeral of Michael Jackson, Jim Henson, basically any celebrity or political figure, and any soldier who returns from military service in a casket? You can hold that line of reasoning, it's internally consistent... But it appears disjoint from the cultural values I perceive. Maybe the culture is wrong; in this case, my gut tells me it isn't, but I don't have a good counter-argument to explain my gut. ;)
- cessor 12y ago
  Thank you for your rational and neutral reply! My intention is not to just troll around. You ask: > Couldn't this reasoning be applied as criticism for the funeral of Michael Jackson, Jim Henson, basically any celebrity or political figure, and any soldier who returns from military service in a casket? I don't see this as a rethorical question, and I am going to answer it: Yes, definitely. In my opinion valuing the death of a politician or another person of public interest in the media higher than all common-day tragedy is an insult. My brother lost his very best childhood friend in a tragic car accident. My grandma commited suicide (which surprisingly, tragically is actually not that uncommon with elderly people). Where is his hashtag? I am not trying to make the same argument or really claim the same sympathies, but I am trying to point out that loss is universal, sad and never fair. In some cultures the idea of absolute equality in death is prevalent. This concept is canceled out by the media attention of the death of a person. I feel very hurt, and loss is bad, there is no question that the individual has a right to mourning and grieving over the loss. But since there this is a universal concept it is unfair to bring other people into this. I do not blame Eric, but I am not sure I understand the motives of making this in to some sort of hashtag campaign. I feel that this is very unfair, because in this emotional discourse there is no rational argument allowed. I hear people say that "Well what would it hurt, it is just a name in a spec!?". Would we feel the same way if religious groups would claim to influence technology in such a way? How about a Jesus Blue or a JHWH-Green. Religious feelings are also not up for debate, which is why I am claiming to feel molested, because there is no arguing allowed.
  - Zikes 12y ago
    There is plenty of rational argument allowed and currently taking place on this matter, so I rather doubt that's the source of your "emotional molestation". Please do not use this as an excuse to take a moral high ground in order to win a debate if you're unable to offer up a rational counterpoint. Your points about celebrity losses versus personal losses is valid, but has a very simple answer: we don't know you. People well-known in communities or cultures can touch many lives, and people can and will form emotional attachments to them even if they never meet. We are allowed to feel sad for someone else's loss. I'm sorry I never had the opportunity to feel sad for the people you have lost.
mantrax5 12y ago
We're carrying cultural inertia from simpler times when people didn't have easy access to the entire world to air their feelings. It's culturally accepted to share your pain with people you know, and it's culturally accepted not to question or tell people they should keep it to themselves. The problem is that with the Internet and social media the circle of "people you know" may easily turn out "the entire world". Quite obviously, our minds are not equipped with the capacity of feeling for everyone's tragedy. If we could truly comprehend the tragedy behind a simple statistic like "thousands die in car accidents every month" it would render us depressed and unable to function. As we feel more and more like a small village online (with a few billion people in it), the currently established "normal" cultural behavior in case of death will eventually start breaking down. You are detecting the anomaly of following cultural patterns in a global online community where those patterns are ill-fitting. But most people don't detect it, they just follow the patterns. Your thinking is not unique, but it's rare. Not many people stop to think and analyze why they're reacting the way they're reacting to your statements. Don't feel bad about the downvotes. We're merely machines running the program (culture) we've been loaded with. We do what the program says is right.

by cessor 12y ago

Zikes 12y ago

Eric is not the person making this request, and thus far has only shared the circumstances of his daughter's death with people that know or follow him.

cessor 12y ago
Eric might not be the active agent in this, and I understand the context. Wether Eric feels addressed by this or the person behind the hashtag, I believe that my argument becomes clear.

fixermark 12y ago

"Stop making your loss public; it's not more important than the losses in my life" is an argument I don't hear often. I can see some merit in it, but it sounds like a counter-argument to functionally any form of public funeral or acknowledgement of death. Couldn't this reasoning be applied as criticism for the funeral of Michael Jackson, Jim Henson, basically any celebrity or political figure, and any soldier who returns from military service in a casket? You can hold that line of reasoning, it's internally consistent... But it appears disjoint from the cultural values I perceive. Maybe the culture is wrong; in this case, my gut tells me it isn't, but I don't have a good counter-argument to explain my gut. ;)

cessor 12y ago
Thank you for your rational and neutral reply! My intention is not to just troll around. You ask: > Couldn't this reasoning be applied as criticism for the funeral of Michael Jackson, Jim Henson, basically any celebrity or political figure, and any soldier who returns from military service in a casket? I don't see this as a rethorical question, and I am going to answer it: Yes, definitely. In my opinion valuing the death of a politician or another person of public interest in the media higher than all common-day tragedy is an insult. My brother lost his very best childhood friend in a tragic car accident. My grandma commited suicide (which surprisingly, tragically is actually not that uncommon with elderly people). Where is his hashtag? I am not trying to make the same argument or really claim the same sympathies, but I am trying to point out that loss is universal, sad and never fair. In some cultures the idea of absolute equality in death is prevalent. This concept is canceled out by the media attention of the death of a person. I feel very hurt, and loss is bad, there is no question that the individual has a right to mourning and grieving over the loss. But since there this is a universal concept it is unfair to bring other people into this. I do not blame Eric, but I am not sure I understand the motives of making this in to some sort of hashtag campaign. I feel that this is very unfair, because in this emotional discourse there is no rational argument allowed. I hear people say that "Well what would it hurt, it is just a name in a spec!?". Would we feel the same way if religious groups would claim to influence technology in such a way? How about a Jesus Blue or a JHWH-Green. Religious feelings are also not up for debate, which is why I am claiming to feel molested, because there is no arguing allowed.
- Zikes 12y ago
  There is plenty of rational argument allowed and currently taking place on this matter, so I rather doubt that's the source of your "emotional molestation". Please do not use this as an excuse to take a moral high ground in order to win a debate if you're unable to offer up a rational counterpoint. Your points about celebrity losses versus personal losses is valid, but has a very simple answer: we don't know you. People well-known in communities or cultures can touch many lives, and people can and will form emotional attachments to them even if they never meet. We are allowed to feel sad for someone else's loss. I'm sorry I never had the opportunity to feel sad for the people you have lost.

mantrax5 12y ago

We're carrying cultural inertia from simpler times when people didn't have easy access to the entire world to air their feelings. It's culturally accepted to share your pain with people you know, and it's culturally accepted not to question or tell people they should keep it to themselves. The problem is that with the Internet and social media the circle of "people you know" may easily turn out "the entire world". Quite obviously, our minds are not equipped with the capacity of feeling for everyone's tragedy. If we could truly comprehend the tragedy behind a simple statistic like "thousands die in car accidents every month" it would render us depressed and unable to function. As we feel more and more like a small village online (with a few billion people in it), the currently established "normal" cultural behavior in case of death will eventually start breaking down. You are detecting the anomaly of following cultural patterns in a global online community where those patterns are ill-fitting. But most people don't detect it, they just follow the patterns. Your thinking is not unique, but it's rare. Not many people stop to think and analyze why they're reacting the way they're reacting to your statements. Don't feel bad about the downvotes. We're merely machines running the program (culture) we've been loaded with. We do what the program says is right.