4 ms·

This seems insane. Shouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient to just sell them on an exchange or something? (Over time, even, rather than all at once, obviousl

This seems insane. Shouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient to just sell them on an exchange or something? (Over time, even, rather than all at once, obviously.) "Let's sell them all in blocks of 3000 and require a deposit of $200k to bid" ... yeah ...

jarrett 12y ago
If you were the US Marshals, would you entrust the government's money[1] to an unregulated Bitcoin exchange? [1] As to whether the government is morally, ethically, or legally entitled to the seized properties, I have no opinion. I don't know anything about the situation.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  I'm not sure one could possibly argue that this is morally or ethically "right". Legally it's apparently a-ok though. These coins were technically owned by all the people with accounts on the Silk Road and were not necessarily going to be used for illegal transactions. For all we know this is basically government stolen money from some guy who wanted to buy a sandwich with Bitcoin just for the laughs and to say he did.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - saraid216 12y ago
      > For the same reason I wouldn't hand anybody involved in illegal activity my wallet. Well, let's not go that far. I'd totally give someone my wallet if they were pointing a loaded gun at my head. Ain't nothing in there worth dying for.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
      That analogy is quite a reach, the guy behind silk road wasn't killing anybody or planning to. With that said, I agree there's risk involved in having the Silk Road hold your money and you can expect it might be seized by law enforcement. That doesn't make the government in the right morally for doing so despite the law saying they can- which was exactly my point in the first place. I'm not sure we're really on different pages here based on this reply. As an aside, I'd like to point out that Mt.Gox has clearly shown us the biggest crooks are the ones right out in the open.
      - danielweber 12y ago
        That analogy is quite a reach, the guy behind silk road wasn't killing anybody or planning to. Unless this is some weird language trick where hiring a hit man somehow doesn't count as "planning to kill somebody," I'm assuming you are unaware that he was hiring a hitman.
        Omniusaspirer 12y ago
        Well...that makes me look a bit of a fool. :) The analogy was fair enough then and I apologize for calling it out.
- adestefan 12y ago
  The government doesn't see Bitcoin as money. Instead it's just selling seized property like it always does.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > The government doesn't see Bitcoin as money. I think the money in GP refers to the other side of the trade -- if you sell an asset on an exchange, you are going to then have money (received from the purchaser) that is yours on that exchange until you are able to extract it. Ideally, that would be trivial, but that hasn't always been the case for BTC exchanges (Mt.Gox being a notable example for an extended period of time.)
    - jarrett 12y ago
      Yes, that's what I was referring to. Instead of "money," perhaps I ought to have said "value." Analogously, if I had a pound of gold, and I gave it to a broker to sell for me, I'd be trusting that broker with my "value."
bthrn 12y ago
-Large sales are usually done off exchanges because it's easier to agree on a price and leave the market unaffected by such a large transaction. -The government is probably not interested in taking a long time to sell these blocks. -Lastly, I imagine there are easily more than 10 individuals who are both financially willing and able to purchase blocks of this size.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
adwf 12y ago
I imagine it's just official government procedure. ie. You seized an asset, this is how you sell assets, therefore this is how you sell bitcoins.
- slewis 12y ago
  Does the government sell seized USD?
  - saraid216 12y ago
    The official stance of the US Government, at least the IRS, is that Bitcoin is property, not currency. Therefore what they seized was not currency, but property, and the correct procedure for property is to sell it by auction.
    - Glyptodon 12y ago
      If they seize stocks do they sell them at auction rather than on the open market?
jessriedel 12y ago
That only work if there is an exchange that is widely considered reputable so that the market value is accepted by observers as fair, and those places just don't exist yet for bitcoin. (Obviously, having stolen good sold at the agent's nephews's yardsale is not OK.) Sometimes there are inefficiencies involved with transparency.
cmelbye 12y ago
Signing up for an account on $EXCHANGE_THAT_ISNT_COMPROMISED_YET so you can unload $17,000,000 worth of Bitcoin sounds far more insane to me than this does.
dkural 12y ago
The question is, what is cheaper & more efficient to sell all seized assets, not one particular class. Global optimization.

jarrett 12y ago

If you were the US Marshals, would you entrust the government's money[1] to an unregulated Bitcoin exchange? [1] As to whether the government is morally, ethically, or legally entitled to the seized properties, I have no opinion. I don't know anything about the situation.

Omniusaspirer 12y ago
I'm not sure one could possibly argue that this is morally or ethically "right". Legally it's apparently a-ok though. These coins were technically owned by all the people with accounts on the Silk Road and were not necessarily going to be used for illegal transactions. For all we know this is basically government stolen money from some guy who wanted to buy a sandwich with Bitcoin just for the laughs and to say he did.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - saraid216 12y ago
    > For the same reason I wouldn't hand anybody involved in illegal activity my wallet. Well, let's not go that far. I'd totally give someone my wallet if they were pointing a loaded gun at my head. Ain't nothing in there worth dying for.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    That analogy is quite a reach, the guy behind silk road wasn't killing anybody or planning to. With that said, I agree there's risk involved in having the Silk Road hold your money and you can expect it might be seized by law enforcement. That doesn't make the government in the right morally for doing so despite the law saying they can- which was exactly my point in the first place. I'm not sure we're really on different pages here based on this reply. As an aside, I'd like to point out that Mt.Gox has clearly shown us the biggest crooks are the ones right out in the open.
    - danielweber 12y ago
      That analogy is quite a reach, the guy behind silk road wasn't killing anybody or planning to. Unless this is some weird language trick where hiring a hit man somehow doesn't count as "planning to kill somebody," I'm assuming you are unaware that he was hiring a hitman.
      - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
        Well...that makes me look a bit of a fool. :) The analogy was fair enough then and I apologize for calling it out.
adestefan 12y ago
The government doesn't see Bitcoin as money. Instead it's just selling seized property like it always does.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > The government doesn't see Bitcoin as money. I think the money in GP refers to the other side of the trade -- if you sell an asset on an exchange, you are going to then have money (received from the purchaser) that is yours on that exchange until you are able to extract it. Ideally, that would be trivial, but that hasn't always been the case for BTC exchanges (Mt.Gox being a notable example for an extended period of time.)
  - jarrett 12y ago
    Yes, that's what I was referring to. Instead of "money," perhaps I ought to have said "value." Analogously, if I had a pound of gold, and I gave it to a broker to sell for me, I'd be trusting that broker with my "value."

bthrn 12y ago

-Large sales are usually done off exchanges because it's easier to agree on a price and leave the market unaffected by such a large transaction. -The government is probably not interested in taking a long time to sell these blocks. -Lastly, I imagine there are easily more than 10 individuals who are both financially willing and able to purchase blocks of this size.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

adwf 12y ago

I imagine it's just official government procedure. ie. You seized an asset, this is how you sell assets, therefore this is how you sell bitcoins.

slewis 12y ago
Does the government sell seized USD?
- saraid216 12y ago
  The official stance of the US Government, at least the IRS, is that Bitcoin is property, not currency. Therefore what they seized was not currency, but property, and the correct procedure for property is to sell it by auction.
  - Glyptodon 12y ago
    If they seize stocks do they sell them at auction rather than on the open market?

jessriedel 12y ago

That only work if there is an exchange that is widely considered reputable so that the market value is accepted by observers as fair, and those places just don't exist yet for bitcoin. (Obviously, having stolen good sold at the agent's nephews's yardsale is not OK.) Sometimes there are inefficiencies involved with transparency.

cmelbye 12y ago

Signing up for an account on $EXCHANGE_THAT_ISNT_COMPROMISED_YET so you can unload $17,000,000 worth of Bitcoin sounds far more insane to me than this does.

dkural 12y ago

The question is, what is cheaper & more efficient to sell all seized assets, not one particular class. Global optimization.