3 ms·

Someone just voted this down anonymously - please, come out and make yourself known so we can have a discussion. True story: A good Chinese-Canadian friend got

Someone just voted this down anonymously - please, come out and make yourself known so we can have a discussion. True story: A good Chinese-Canadian friend got a PhD and was offered a professor's post. Then he jumped onto a part time project before taking his professor's post that hit it big, found it enjoyable, and got quite wealthy from it. He lectured one year before quitting to go private, and laments the time and money he wasted in academia. Maybe 10 people on the planet read his thesis. So, anonymous downvoter, are you a graduate student? Or a high school teacher or professor perhaps? I paid for all my school bills myself. I attended university full time while running a company full time and putting 20+ hours into a startup. And you know what? I estimate I'd be worth something like $100,000 - $250,000 more if I'd put the efforts into work and getting paid for it and had the tuition money for investments later. I had exactly three highly useful university classes: Business law, project management, microeconomics. Maybe 4 or 5 somewhat useful classes, and the rest were an epic waste of time and money. So, please come out and discuss with me, especially if I've struck a nerve. It's a nerve that should be struck, discussed, and worked out. Society will be better and the would-be academic will be wealthier and more productive. Edit: It's funny watching the score of the parent go up and down. I'm hanging around, waiting for a reply so we can get a discussion going if anyone would like to. But people would not like to. They don't want to come and say, "You said this, which I sort of agree, and you said that, which I think is wrong, and here is why." No, they read the above and go, "OhmygoshnoIdon'tlikethat." Or something like that - I don't know exactly, because they don't weigh in and establish why they disagree. I took time and wrote my take on American education and the fact that the wealthiest people I know are not college graduates. Will there be dispute? Discussion? A half dozen people or so have voted the comment up now, another half dozen have voted it down without explaining why. If this were a less civil environment, I would call those people cowards - not cowards for not confronting my views, but cowards for not confronting themselves. I know education/academia is a big part of identity for a lot of people. Confront yourself if you are an academic, weigh in on this thread. Am I mistaken? I would love to learn more. Please share your perspective. Maybe I will disagree with you and discuss, maybe I will agree with you and learn and amend my own perspective. But I've written candidly, thoughtfully, with real observations I've had and some people have voted that down anonymously without explaining why. Please join the conversation, if you can confront these foreign ideas in your mind.

lionhearted 17y ago
I will try one last time - I invite anyone who disagrees to share their disagreement. Was there not enough civility? I've shared my experiences on the American system, and my opinions, and I've taken time to write them and share anecdotes. Something like 6-8 people found them useful and voted up. Something like 7-9 people as of now found them upsetting/wrong/something and voted them down. The comment score has been swinging. This is apparently quite polarizing to people. I'd really like to know why - agreement or disagreement, actually. I would truly, respectfully like to hear it. I've shared my experience and opinion, and would like to hear yours. Or your rationale for saying "this comment ought not to have been made and/or is completely wrong", which is what a vote against says. Was it uninsightful? Misguided or inaccurate? Not enough politeness? Certainly, there was some thought and introspection before writing. I am at a loss to understand people's views on this - I will not speculate further, but instead, again, humbly, ask for a reply so that we may have a discussion, if you feel it worth your time to make known how you feel.
- scott_s 17y ago
  I imagine some of your upvotes are like mine: I don't really agree with what you said, but I still think it's a valid, civil comment. So I upvoted it from -1 to 0. I consider that a correction upvote. Personally, I'm not interested in engaging you in discussion because I think you've painted a caricature of our educational system - recognizable features are there, but greatly exaggerated. Addressing all of these would take more time and effort than I want to invest in a discussion that I've seen and participated in before. Also keep in mind that people don't owe you a response. Scolding people into talking to you is not a good tactic.
  - lionhearted 17y ago
    > Personally, I'm not interested in engaging you in discussion because I think you've painted a caricature of our educational system - recognizable features are there, but greatly exaggerated. Interesting - that's fair. I suppose a lot of people's experience differs too, so it's easy for people to talk past each other. I do know quite a lot of people, including a lot of self made people, and it's a subject I've discussed a lot. I've done teaching and training myself and I think our system is in disrepair, but perhaps I should be more balanced and less caricaturizing. > Also keep in mind that people don't owe you a response. Owe? Well, certainly not, though perhaps it's considerate for someone to explain why they downvoted a comment and it lets discussion get going. My own sense of decorum is I'll downvote noise ("right on! lol!" type posts) without explaining why, otherwise I won't unless there's already a good reply explaining why the disagreement. > Scolding people into talking to you is not a good tactic. I'm torn by whether to make a joke or a serious reply to this. I'll go the serious route: There's no scolding involved. I think people downvote identity-held issues without writing a disagreement, and I think it means people's worldviews don't evolve as quickly as they could, both mine and others'. I've had some fantastic disagreements with my comments in the past that led to very good discussion where I've learned a lot. For instance: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=723610 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=723610 So, I appreciate replies. Especially on an identity-level issue, yes, I'll absolutely ask again if I think people might be kneejerk voting based on identity. I want to learn on here, and want to be entertained, and I want others to learn, and I want others to be entertained. With discussion, we can do that. That's why I invite it. Thank you for your response.

lionhearted 17y ago

I will try one last time - I invite anyone who disagrees to share their disagreement. Was there not enough civility? I've shared my experiences on the American system, and my opinions, and I've taken time to write them and share anecdotes. Something like 6-8 people found them useful and voted up. Something like 7-9 people as of now found them upsetting/wrong/something and voted them down. The comment score has been swinging. This is apparently quite polarizing to people. I'd really like to know why - agreement or disagreement, actually. I would truly, respectfully like to hear it. I've shared my experience and opinion, and would like to hear yours. Or your rationale for saying "this comment ought not to have been made and/or is completely wrong", which is what a vote against says. Was it uninsightful? Misguided or inaccurate? Not enough politeness? Certainly, there was some thought and introspection before writing. I am at a loss to understand people's views on this - I will not speculate further, but instead, again, humbly, ask for a reply so that we may have a discussion, if you feel it worth your time to make known how you feel.

scott_s 17y ago
I imagine some of your upvotes are like mine: I don't really agree with what you said, but I still think it's a valid, civil comment. So I upvoted it from -1 to 0. I consider that a correction upvote. Personally, I'm not interested in engaging you in discussion because I think you've painted a caricature of our educational system - recognizable features are there, but greatly exaggerated. Addressing all of these would take more time and effort than I want to invest in a discussion that I've seen and participated in before. Also keep in mind that people don't owe you a response. Scolding people into talking to you is not a good tactic.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > Personally, I'm not interested in engaging you in discussion because I think you've painted a caricature of our educational system - recognizable features are there, but greatly exaggerated. Interesting - that's fair. I suppose a lot of people's experience differs too, so it's easy for people to talk past each other. I do know quite a lot of people, including a lot of self made people, and it's a subject I've discussed a lot. I've done teaching and training myself and I think our system is in disrepair, but perhaps I should be more balanced and less caricaturizing. > Also keep in mind that people don't owe you a response. Owe? Well, certainly not, though perhaps it's considerate for someone to explain why they downvoted a comment and it lets discussion get going. My own sense of decorum is I'll downvote noise ("right on! lol!" type posts) without explaining why, otherwise I won't unless there's already a good reply explaining why the disagreement. > Scolding people into talking to you is not a good tactic. I'm torn by whether to make a joke or a serious reply to this. I'll go the serious route: There's no scolding involved. I think people downvote identity-held issues without writing a disagreement, and I think it means people's worldviews don't evolve as quickly as they could, both mine and others'. I've had some fantastic disagreements with my comments in the past that led to very good discussion where I've learned a lot. For instance: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=723610 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=723610 So, I appreciate replies. Especially on an identity-level issue, yes, I'll absolutely ask again if I think people might be kneejerk voting based on identity. I want to learn on here, and want to be entertained, and I want others to learn, and I want others to be entertained. With discussion, we can do that. That's why I invite it. Thank you for your response.