4 ms·

> At other times, there's a hint of condescension, as though the question is actually: "Couldn't make it in academia, eh? Stuck in industry, eh?" Wow. Just wow

> At other times, there's a hint of condescension, as though the question is actually: "Couldn't make it in academia, eh? Stuck in industry, eh?" Wow. Just wow. If you're in academia, and you don't do original research, you've got to be an amazing lecturer/teacher to make yourself worth a damn to society. Most of American education from middle school on is credentialing based on your ability to follow instructions carefully. You could say it "shows how well you'll fit in at a job" if you're being charitable; you could call it "obedience school" if you're being less charitable. Without fail, all of the wealthiest people I know didn't graduate college and half of them didn't graduate high school. Engineering and programs that follow a curriculum similar to engineering do okay. But most of the rest is junk unless your goal is to be a moderately salaried reasonably secure employee. High school and college never have and can't teach you what you need to be perform on the highest levels. Mark Twain said it pretty well: "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

hughprime 17y ago
If you're in academia, and you don't do original research, you've got to be an amazing lecturer/teacher to make yourself worth a damn to society. The vast majority of folks in academia are doing original research, that's why they're there. Most of 'em see teaching as a somewhat annoying obligation which they have to go through in order to be allowed to do research. Without fail, all of the wealthiest people I know didn't graduate college and half of them didn't graduate high school. This is, of course, a quirk of the particular people whom you happen to know, and not reflective of society as a whole. The wealthiest people I know have beards.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > The vast majority of folks in academia are doing original research, that's why they're there. In the hard sciences, many of them do. Vast majority? Maybe. Outside of the hard sciences? No. > Most of 'em see teaching as a somewhat annoying obligation which they have to go through in order to be allowed to do research. Yes. Those research professors actually tend to be the best, because they're producing new and interesting results. My professor of project management used to run a defense company, making advanced weapons for the U.S. military. When he got older, he started doing supply and manufacturing research. He joked that he just taught so that he could do research, but he was one of the best professors I had. Yet, most American undergraduate degrees require some form of "general requirements", often taught by professors who are doing something other than original research and don't do a particularly good job. > This is, of course, a quirk of the particular people whom you happen to know, and not reflective of society as a whole. I should phrase that differently. Medicine and law have upper-bounds on what you'll earn normally, unless you work in medical devices or open a hospital or law firm. Yet, university doesn't prepare doctors and lawyers to open shops - that's just old school business right there. As for business school, it could be better called "consultant training" - I know, I studied business. 10-20% of the program is incredibly valuable, the other 80-90% is useless theoretical nonsense. All the MBAs I know make decent to good coin. But nothing compared to the entrepreneurs, businessmen, hustler types. I know lots of people with degrees and without degrees. Putting the time into working for yourself is much more likely to make you wealthy than getting the degree. The only exception is if you've got a passion or knack for one of the few fields that higher education does a halfway decent job with. > The wealthiest people I know have beards. Funny you joke that - same here. But maybe there's something more to that - office dress codes in formal areas typically require clean shaven people. People who work for themselves or in small companies usually have less strict appearances. A mentor of mine in Dubai makes $200k/month roughly. He dresses semi-casual most of the time. He calls putting on a formal suit and tie, "Dressing up and playing business." (Incidentally, he grew up in the ghettos of London and didn't graduate middle school. But that's a tangent) The beard thing? Yeah, there might be something to do that. Wealth creators are more concerned with creating wealth than looking respectable. Mainstream American education? More concerned with credentialing than learning. By a landslide.
- klipt 17y ago
  Nobel winning physicist Feynman on the importance of teaching: http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html
lionhearted 17y ago
Someone just voted this down anonymously - please, come out and make yourself known so we can have a discussion. True story: A good Chinese-Canadian friend got a PhD and was offered a professor's post. Then he jumped onto a part time project before taking his professor's post that hit it big, found it enjoyable, and got quite wealthy from it. He lectured one year before quitting to go private, and laments the time and money he wasted in academia. Maybe 10 people on the planet read his thesis. So, anonymous downvoter, are you a graduate student? Or a high school teacher or professor perhaps? I paid for all my school bills myself. I attended university full time while running a company full time and putting 20+ hours into a startup. And you know what? I estimate I'd be worth something like $100,000 - $250,000 more if I'd put the efforts into work and getting paid for it and had the tuition money for investments later. I had exactly three highly useful university classes: Business law, project management, microeconomics. Maybe 4 or 5 somewhat useful classes, and the rest were an epic waste of time and money. So, please come out and discuss with me, especially if I've struck a nerve. It's a nerve that should be struck, discussed, and worked out. Society will be better and the would-be academic will be wealthier and more productive. Edit: It's funny watching the score of the parent go up and down. I'm hanging around, waiting for a reply so we can get a discussion going if anyone would like to. But people would not like to. They don't want to come and say, "You said this, which I sort of agree, and you said that, which I think is wrong, and here is why." No, they read the above and go, "OhmygoshnoIdon'tlikethat." Or something like that - I don't know exactly, because they don't weigh in and establish why they disagree. I took time and wrote my take on American education and the fact that the wealthiest people I know are not college graduates. Will there be dispute? Discussion? A half dozen people or so have voted the comment up now, another half dozen have voted it down without explaining why. If this were a less civil environment, I would call those people cowards - not cowards for not confronting my views, but cowards for not confronting themselves. I know education/academia is a big part of identity for a lot of people. Confront yourself if you are an academic, weigh in on this thread. Am I mistaken? I would love to learn more. Please share your perspective. Maybe I will disagree with you and discuss, maybe I will agree with you and learn and amend my own perspective. But I've written candidly, thoughtfully, with real observations I've had and some people have voted that down anonymously without explaining why. Please join the conversation, if you can confront these foreign ideas in your mind.

hughprime 17y ago

If you're in academia, and you don't do original research, you've got to be an amazing lecturer/teacher to make yourself worth a damn to society. The vast majority of folks in academia are doing original research, that's why they're there. Most of 'em see teaching as a somewhat annoying obligation which they have to go through in order to be allowed to do research. Without fail, all of the wealthiest people I know didn't graduate college and half of them didn't graduate high school. This is, of course, a quirk of the particular people whom you happen to know, and not reflective of society as a whole. The wealthiest people I know have beards.

lionhearted 17y ago
> The vast majority of folks in academia are doing original research, that's why they're there. In the hard sciences, many of them do. Vast majority? Maybe. Outside of the hard sciences? No. > Most of 'em see teaching as a somewhat annoying obligation which they have to go through in order to be allowed to do research. Yes. Those research professors actually tend to be the best, because they're producing new and interesting results. My professor of project management used to run a defense company, making advanced weapons for the U.S. military. When he got older, he started doing supply and manufacturing research. He joked that he just taught so that he could do research, but he was one of the best professors I had. Yet, most American undergraduate degrees require some form of "general requirements", often taught by professors who are doing something other than original research and don't do a particularly good job. > This is, of course, a quirk of the particular people whom you happen to know, and not reflective of society as a whole. I should phrase that differently. Medicine and law have upper-bounds on what you'll earn normally, unless you work in medical devices or open a hospital or law firm. Yet, university doesn't prepare doctors and lawyers to open shops - that's just old school business right there. As for business school, it could be better called "consultant training" - I know, I studied business. 10-20% of the program is incredibly valuable, the other 80-90% is useless theoretical nonsense. All the MBAs I know make decent to good coin. But nothing compared to the entrepreneurs, businessmen, hustler types. I know lots of people with degrees and without degrees. Putting the time into working for yourself is much more likely to make you wealthy than getting the degree. The only exception is if you've got a passion or knack for one of the few fields that higher education does a halfway decent job with. > The wealthiest people I know have beards. Funny you joke that - same here. But maybe there's something more to that - office dress codes in formal areas typically require clean shaven people. People who work for themselves or in small companies usually have less strict appearances. A mentor of mine in Dubai makes $200k/month roughly. He dresses semi-casual most of the time. He calls putting on a formal suit and tie, "Dressing up and playing business." (Incidentally, he grew up in the ghettos of London and didn't graduate middle school. But that's a tangent) The beard thing? Yeah, there might be something to do that. Wealth creators are more concerned with creating wealth than looking respectable. Mainstream American education? More concerned with credentialing than learning. By a landslide.
klipt 17y ago
Nobel winning physicist Feynman on the importance of teaching: http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html http://www.pitt.edu/~druzdzel/feynman.html

lionhearted 17y ago

Someone just voted this down anonymously - please, come out and make yourself known so we can have a discussion. True story: A good Chinese-Canadian friend got a PhD and was offered a professor's post. Then he jumped onto a part time project before taking his professor's post that hit it big, found it enjoyable, and got quite wealthy from it. He lectured one year before quitting to go private, and laments the time and money he wasted in academia. Maybe 10 people on the planet read his thesis. So, anonymous downvoter, are you a graduate student? Or a high school teacher or professor perhaps? I paid for all my school bills myself. I attended university full time while running a company full time and putting 20+ hours into a startup. And you know what? I estimate I'd be worth something like $100,000 - $250,000 more if I'd put the efforts into work and getting paid for it and had the tuition money for investments later. I had exactly three highly useful university classes: Business law, project management, microeconomics. Maybe 4 or 5 somewhat useful classes, and the rest were an epic waste of time and money. So, please come out and discuss with me, especially if I've struck a nerve. It's a nerve that should be struck, discussed, and worked out. Society will be better and the would-be academic will be wealthier and more productive. Edit: It's funny watching the score of the parent go up and down. I'm hanging around, waiting for a reply so we can get a discussion going if anyone would like to. But people would not like to. They don't want to come and say, "You said this, which I sort of agree, and you said that, which I think is wrong, and here is why." No, they read the above and go, "OhmygoshnoIdon'tlikethat." Or something like that - I don't know exactly, because they don't weigh in and establish why they disagree. I took time and wrote my take on American education and the fact that the wealthiest people I know are not college graduates. Will there be dispute? Discussion? A half dozen people or so have voted the comment up now, another half dozen have voted it down without explaining why. If this were a less civil environment, I would call those people cowards - not cowards for not confronting my views, but cowards for not confronting themselves. I know education/academia is a big part of identity for a lot of people. Confront yourself if you are an academic, weigh in on this thread. Am I mistaken? I would love to learn more. Please share your perspective. Maybe I will disagree with you and discuss, maybe I will agree with you and learn and amend my own perspective. But I've written candidly, thoughtfully, with real observations I've had and some people have voted that down anonymously without explaining why. Please join the conversation, if you can confront these foreign ideas in your mind.