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This is absurd. I was the CTO at a startup with a small budget and looked into bit.ly. You know what I did? I looked at their damn TOS, because when you're runn

This is absurd. I was the CTO at a startup with a small budget and looked into bit.ly. You know what I did? I looked at their damn TOS, because when you're running a business you look at ALL your third party service's TOS's. ESPECIALLY the free ones. It was quite nice of bit.ly to voluntarily cut your bill. Instead of learning something valuable about how the market works you've shifted the blame to someone else. You would do well to reflect on these events and ask yourself why instead of accepting your own error here you've pushed the blame onto bit.ly.

pduszak 12y ago
But... why can't they just give me free things? I don't see a problem with building my business atop the back of another and sharing 0% of the profit. /s
- ozkatz 12y ago
  I've also updated the post to reflect this: I don't mind paying. Its the policy of not leaving me a choice to do so by not allowing me to export my data and go elsewhere that bothers me.
  - jasode 12y ago
    How would they realistically "allow" you to export your data? Would it require extra programmer effort and cost to develop such export functionality? If they didn't invest the money to build that capability, why would they want to? What's the ROI for them to do it? It took several years for GMail to have mailbox export capabilities. Some team somewhere has to write and test all that code.
    - jplur 12y ago
      Is there even data to export? It appears to me the OP would need the bit.ly domain to preserve the links, otherwise he could just scrape all the URLs and find a way to redirect them.
      - yebyen 12y ago
        He used his own custom URL, which is cleverer because he can take it with him, but not so clever because ... reason we are having this conversation now, you have to think this through! I've never used Bit.ly's hosted service, but he already said there's no way to export the data. So, hopefully clear there is some data, Bit.ly has a list of shared URLs from his customers, and they've populated a database with some short codes in order to redirect them. They are (correct me if I'm not understanding how this service works) the only ones in a position to know which short URLs are already used and which ones are not. So, if the list of short codes is short enough that he can search it in a couple of days and follow all of the links, then that's obviously what he should be doing rather than having public gripe time on HN. (Then again, if he pays them just once he gets a decent bit of extra time, and they get paid for providing the service when his business was too small to justify him bringing his own infrastructure. Win-win?)
  - stronglikedan 12y ago
    You have already used paid-tier resources, and they are simply asking you to reimburse them for that.
  - andrewvc 12y ago
    And that is why you vet free services extensively. There's a reason they're free. Often times lock in is the way they do things. Sure it sounds unfair when you say "they won't let ME export MY data", but it sounds different when you say "we'll provide a FREE service for you, up to a point, but when it gets reasonably large or commercial you promise to give us your business." There is no such thing as a free lunch.
  - JabavuAdams 12y ago
    That's a step in the right direction, but the piece still reads as though you're trying to shift the blame for your mistake. Removing any "shady" or "not cool" accusations (and implicitly leaving them to the reader), and just adopting a neutral "Hey devs, make sure you read the ToS, 'cause I didn't and look what happened..." tone would make your piece basically unassailable.
lgmspb 12y ago
I completely agree with you, but it would be nice of bit.ly to give guys some time to think, few days are obviously not enough
3pt14159 12y ago
Nope. Bitly is being pretty damn shady. Their home page says "sign up for free" and doesn't mention pricing anywhere, and their signup page doesn't mention paid options. People don't have time to read every single terms of service. ToS are basically there to stop dicks from being dicks and then suing you, not to bury how you are going to hold someone's business hostage.
- frostmatthew 12y ago
  The "sign up for free" link on the home page is for individual users, not for companies/brands. If you click the "Learn More" button in the "Bitly Brand Tools" section (which is far more prominent than the sign up link) the following pages do have a "Pricing" link in the top navigation bar (and that's presumably the signup they would need to use to make use of the "brand tools" features). And yes most people do not read "every single terms of service" - but a business would be foolish to have so much of their business rely on another without reading the other's ToS. A look at Swayy's home page says "By connecting, you are agreeing to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy." - funny they expect their users to agree to their ToS but can't be bothered to read ones for services they use. As for bit.ly holding them "hostage" that's something Swayy should have considered before choosing them (or anyone else). What was Swayy's plan if bit.ly went out of business?

pduszak 12y ago

But... why can't they just give me free things? I don't see a problem with building my business atop the back of another and sharing 0% of the profit. /s

ozkatz 12y ago
I've also updated the post to reflect this: I don't mind paying. Its the policy of not leaving me a choice to do so by not allowing me to export my data and go elsewhere that bothers me.
- jasode 12y ago
  How would they realistically "allow" you to export your data? Would it require extra programmer effort and cost to develop such export functionality? If they didn't invest the money to build that capability, why would they want to? What's the ROI for them to do it? It took several years for GMail to have mailbox export capabilities. Some team somewhere has to write and test all that code.
  - jplur 12y ago
    Is there even data to export? It appears to me the OP would need the bit.ly domain to preserve the links, otherwise he could just scrape all the URLs and find a way to redirect them.
    - yebyen 12y ago
      He used his own custom URL, which is cleverer because he can take it with him, but not so clever because ... reason we are having this conversation now, you have to think this through! I've never used Bit.ly's hosted service, but he already said there's no way to export the data. So, hopefully clear there is some data, Bit.ly has a list of shared URLs from his customers, and they've populated a database with some short codes in order to redirect them. They are (correct me if I'm not understanding how this service works) the only ones in a position to know which short URLs are already used and which ones are not. So, if the list of short codes is short enough that he can search it in a couple of days and follow all of the links, then that's obviously what he should be doing rather than having public gripe time on HN. (Then again, if he pays them just once he gets a decent bit of extra time, and they get paid for providing the service when his business was too small to justify him bringing his own infrastructure. Win-win?)
- stronglikedan 12y ago
  You have already used paid-tier resources, and they are simply asking you to reimburse them for that.
- andrewvc 12y ago
  And that is why you vet free services extensively. There's a reason they're free. Often times lock in is the way they do things. Sure it sounds unfair when you say "they won't let ME export MY data", but it sounds different when you say "we'll provide a FREE service for you, up to a point, but when it gets reasonably large or commercial you promise to give us your business." There is no such thing as a free lunch.
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  That's a step in the right direction, but the piece still reads as though you're trying to shift the blame for your mistake. Removing any "shady" or "not cool" accusations (and implicitly leaving them to the reader), and just adopting a neutral "Hey devs, make sure you read the ToS, 'cause I didn't and look what happened..." tone would make your piece basically unassailable.

lgmspb 12y ago

I completely agree with you, but it would be nice of bit.ly to give guys some time to think, few days are obviously not enough

3pt14159 12y ago

Nope. Bitly is being pretty damn shady. Their home page says "sign up for free" and doesn't mention pricing anywhere, and their signup page doesn't mention paid options. People don't have time to read every single terms of service. ToS are basically there to stop dicks from being dicks and then suing you, not to bury how you are going to hold someone's business hostage.

frostmatthew 12y ago
The "sign up for free" link on the home page is for individual users, not for companies/brands. If you click the "Learn More" button in the "Bitly Brand Tools" section (which is far more prominent than the sign up link) the following pages do have a "Pricing" link in the top navigation bar (and that's presumably the signup they would need to use to make use of the "brand tools" features). And yes most people do not read "every single terms of service" - but a business would be foolish to have so much of their business rely on another without reading the other's ToS. A look at Swayy's home page says "By connecting, you are agreeing to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy." - funny they expect their users to agree to their ToS but can't be bothered to read ones for services they use. As for bit.ly holding them "hostage" that's something Swayy should have considered before choosing them (or anyone else). What was Swayy's plan if bit.ly went out of business?