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I could write a whole essay on this topic, believe me... so lets go with the short version. First is that most of the phones out there are running Firefox OS 1

by soapdog 12y ago

I could write a whole essay on this topic, believe me... so lets go with the short version. First is that most of the phones out there are running Firefox OS 1.1 and this version is not as snappy as Firefox OS 1.3 which is probably the next version those phones will upgrade to. Firefox OS 1.3 is much faster and solved a lot of bugs. HTML5 is the native thing in Firefox OS. All apps and parts of the system itself are built with it. Thats how good it is when we build Telephony stuff in Javascript. The thing is that Firefox OS is also the easiest platform to develop for. Its much easier to develop for web technologies than it is to learn ObjC and Java. That being said, lots of new developers are coming on board are still learning the best practices so we see a lot of apps that could be better just like you see a lot of pages that could be better on the web. The Gecko engine and its WebAPI provide the developer with all that is needed to create good quality apps but since this is our first year, some of our third party developers are still learning the trade. Its getting a lot better. There are 8 million web developers in the world. They could all be shipping apps on Firefox OS if they wanted to. Its free and we provide all the docs, also, its quite easy to develop for Firefox OS first and then pass thru Cordova or similar tech and deploy on other platforms. We believe that the web will win in the long run and that a "web first" mentality will emerge where people will opt to go with an HTML5 solution instead of ObjC/Java/C# threesome. I invite you all to explore our rich APIs at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI and see how every time we feel that something can't be done in HTML5 we try to come with a proposed standard. Its this type of evolution of web standards that moves the web forward in all platforms such as desktops, laptops, TVs and more. As for used cellphones being sold, that doesn't really count in the larger scheme of things. Specially when dealing with Apple. As an exercise try picking an iPhone 3GS and installing random stuff from the App Store... its very hard because developers in those platforms are always developing for the new shiny and forget old customers with outdated hardware very easily. Now try installing an old web browser, something like the same Firefox that was available at that time and browsing the web. It will work because thats how web stuff is made, its made to keep working or degrade nicely. This means that what we call "open web apps" not only are easier to build but they can be used by more people with different hardware and thats why we have the world wide web and not some strange silo such as compuserve... Think of yourself in five years: What type of world do you want? A world where web standards and engines have evolved to the point where you can do all you wish as a developer without moving away from web technologies and you're free to run your app in different platforms and systems or a world where you need to ask "pretty please" to a company in the north region of california every time you want to ship an app? Sorry for making this long...

veeti 12y ago
> First is that most of the phones out there are running Firefox OS 1.1 and this version is not as snappy as Firefox OS 1.3 which is probably the next version those phones will upgrade to. Firefox OS 1.3 is much faster and solved a lot of bugs. You know, we've been reading the exact same excuse about Android since the 2.x versions yet here we are at version 4.4 where even Google's own apps still exhibit noticeable lag and stutter in scrolling and other seemingly simple operations. User interface performance should be one of the topmost priorities for a modern OS, not an afterthought. Considering that even my desktop computer with a quad-core processor and top of the line graphics card can't render common HTML5 web apps at a smooth 60 frames per second, how is a $25 smartphone going to be up to the task?
- zabraxias 12y ago
  There was a really good writeup about the decision process in the early iPhones where Steve Jobs ordered the UI in its own process so that the user gets instant feedback on interactions even if the feedback is a simple loading spinner. It gives the perception of speed even if a modern android phone is timed to load the same application faster. There are ways to try and achieve this in web apps but Apple's early decision to use that approach was certainly brilliant. If you call a bank and a human answers immediately...telling you to please hold...it would be a far better experience than the current press 1 for English.
- soapdog 12y ago
  > Considering that even my desktop computer with a quad-core processor and top of the line graphics card can't render common HTML5 web apps at a smooth 60 frames per second, how is a $25 smartphone going to be up to the task? Of course you wont play crysis on these phones. these phones are not tailored for those triple-A games full of 3D stuff but they are pretty good for 2D casual gaming if the developer knows what it is doing. HTML5 is not a magic bullet. It doesn't solve everything. Of course there are domains that are better suited for other languages. The fact is that HTML5 is the only toolkit that gets us from computers to mobile platforms, smarttvs, videogames, smartwatches and more. Basically its the most common runtime everywhere and its also the easiest. Don't think of Firefox OS as "just a mobile platform" like Android. Think of it as a champion or an extension of the world wide web ecosystem. Its picking what we like from the web and evolving it until it is great on mobile devices as well but without losing the objective of keeping it interoperable with other platforms just like you can open HN on Firefox on Mac OS X or on Midori on Debian/ARM, the interoperable part is key. The phone with the weakest spec I have here is the Alcatel OT Fire. It has 256mb of RAM, 1x Core and yet I can play games at 60 frame a second in it. This, of course, just work if the developer knows how to code for a hardware with such constraints. If a developer code his app on his i7 with 32gb of RAM and dual graphic card without ever thinking of lower hardware then he or she will probably face difficulties when porting to entry level mobile phones. HTML5 mobile gaming is still evolving a lot. Check out http://phaser.io http://phaser.io for a powerful FOSS framework that is able to deliver great performance on entry level phones. Achieving 60fps is not possible in all occasions but achieving interoperability is better. I'd rather have a poor person pick a smartphone for the first time, learn just enough HTML to build a little app that helps his community and start changing things then having the same person get into debt to buy the latest iOS thing and then be unable to deliver the app for his community because Apple didn't like it.

by soapdog 12y ago

veeti 12y ago

> First is that most of the phones out there are running Firefox OS 1.1 and this version is not as snappy as Firefox OS 1.3 which is probably the next version those phones will upgrade to. Firefox OS 1.3 is much faster and solved a lot of bugs. You know, we've been reading the exact same excuse about Android since the 2.x versions yet here we are at version 4.4 where even Google's own apps still exhibit noticeable lag and stutter in scrolling and other seemingly simple operations. User interface performance should be one of the topmost priorities for a modern OS, not an afterthought. Considering that even my desktop computer with a quad-core processor and top of the line graphics card can't render common HTML5 web apps at a smooth 60 frames per second, how is a $25 smartphone going to be up to the task?

zabraxias 12y ago
There was a really good writeup about the decision process in the early iPhones where Steve Jobs ordered the UI in its own process so that the user gets instant feedback on interactions even if the feedback is a simple loading spinner. It gives the perception of speed even if a modern android phone is timed to load the same application faster. There are ways to try and achieve this in web apps but Apple's early decision to use that approach was certainly brilliant. If you call a bank and a human answers immediately...telling you to please hold...it would be a far better experience than the current press 1 for English.
soapdog 12y ago
> Considering that even my desktop computer with a quad-core processor and top of the line graphics card can't render common HTML5 web apps at a smooth 60 frames per second, how is a $25 smartphone going to be up to the task? Of course you wont play crysis on these phones. these phones are not tailored for those triple-A games full of 3D stuff but they are pretty good for 2D casual gaming if the developer knows what it is doing. HTML5 is not a magic bullet. It doesn't solve everything. Of course there are domains that are better suited for other languages. The fact is that HTML5 is the only toolkit that gets us from computers to mobile platforms, smarttvs, videogames, smartwatches and more. Basically its the most common runtime everywhere and its also the easiest. Don't think of Firefox OS as "just a mobile platform" like Android. Think of it as a champion or an extension of the world wide web ecosystem. Its picking what we like from the web and evolving it until it is great on mobile devices as well but without losing the objective of keeping it interoperable with other platforms just like you can open HN on Firefox on Mac OS X or on Midori on Debian/ARM, the interoperable part is key. The phone with the weakest spec I have here is the Alcatel OT Fire. It has 256mb of RAM, 1x Core and yet I can play games at 60 frame a second in it. This, of course, just work if the developer knows how to code for a hardware with such constraints. If a developer code his app on his i7 with 32gb of RAM and dual graphic card without ever thinking of lower hardware then he or she will probably face difficulties when porting to entry level mobile phones. HTML5 mobile gaming is still evolving a lot. Check out http://phaser.io http://phaser.io for a powerful FOSS framework that is able to deliver great performance on entry level phones. Achieving 60fps is not possible in all occasions but achieving interoperability is better. I'd rather have a poor person pick a smartphone for the first time, learn just enough HTML to build a little app that helps his community and start changing things then having the same person get into debt to buy the latest iOS thing and then be unable to deliver the app for his community because Apple didn't like it.