4 ms·

>>What about all the serious recent research showing little correlation between fat in diet and all the diseases? Do you mean the few studies coming from the W

>>What about all the serious recent research showing little correlation between fat in diet and all the diseases? Do you mean the few studies coming from the Weston A Price Foundation reverberated by thousands of paleo-fad blogs/books? The ones that have been refuted over and over by the real experts? Despite all the headlines telling you that bacon is healthy, the lipid hypothesis is still the scientific consensus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Widespread_acceptance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Widespread_acc... >> I would add that meat is often eaten in upper classes meals. Meat is a luxury for the better part of our population. That's simply not true. I'm originally from Brazil and eating meat is not an upper class thing. Animal products are consumed in luxurious gated communities and in favelas alike. It's part of the culture. Unless you're below the poverty line you eat meat daily in Brazil. And those below the poverty line are not the ones dying from heart disease.

secabeen 12y ago
Every study cited in that wikipedia section is at least 10 years old, and the headline survey is 35-years old.
- stfu 12y ago
  And? Do you think smoking became all of the sudden healthy again over the last 50 years since they discovered it is a main cause for cancer? Unless there is a reasonable expectation that things have changed, studies are valid and do not get invalidated by age. Considering that a decent study might take easily a year to run and another year to get through the peer review process, 10 years are actually rather recent. I've seen papers (although in a different field) that in 2013 describe discoveries from the late 199x as "recent".
  - daliusd 12y ago
    Your comparison with smoking is completely unfair. The problem is that we have scientific proof that smoking tobacco causes lung cancer (the emphasis is on "causes"). The problem with nutritional science is that we only have correlation data (or at least it looks like so).
- PerfectElement 12y ago
  For the new research (that haven't been proven over and over again, like the Lipid Hypothesis) go to http://nutritionfacts.org http://nutritionfacts.org and this Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/PrimitiveNutrition http://www.youtube.com/user/PrimitiveNutrition
beloch 12y ago
I live in the biggest meat-producing province in Canada. People up here love beef, and that includes beef jerky. Expensive beef jerky is made with local beef. Pretty much every supermarket and convenience store carries cheap jerky that is imported from Argentina. I don't know how much meat is produced in Brazil, but simply being next to Argentina means that their market is flooded with as much cheap beef as they could possibly want.
- tanzam75 12y ago
  Brazil produces almost four times as much beef as Argentina. However, Brazil has almost five times the population, so the Argentines are still ahead on a per-capita basis. In any case, the Brazilians are not about to run out of beef any time soon.
  - pault 12y ago
    Anecdotally, Brazilian churrasco could be mistaken for Argentinian beef jerky.
    - greenpresident 12y ago
      I don't know the meaning churrasco has in the US but it quite literally means barbecue. So you can have a churrasco, you can go to a churrascaria, etc but it has nothing to do with beef jerky.
    - eitally 12y ago
      Then you're eating at the wrong place. What a ridiculous comment.
daliusd 12y ago
I'm now reading "The Big Fat Surprise" (http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/ http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/1451624425 http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/145162...). I have not read the whole book yet but if what is written in it is truth then there is no science I am expecting in lipid hypothesis and that's is very disappointing. I will double check some facts myself after reading this book but it is interesting. 1-star comments in amazon look valuable as well. Just spent 20 minutes by following comments, blogs and found this: http://www.foodpolitics.com/2014/03/is-saturated-fat-a-problem-food-for-debate/ http://www.foodpolitics.com/2014/03/is-saturated-fat-a-probl... http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fal...
- PerfectElement 12y ago
  Listen to Dr. Garth being interviewed by Rich Roll (starting at 13 min) to understand what this nutrition confusion is all about. https://soundcloud.com/richroll/rrp-050-the-rich-roll-podcast-garth-davis-ironman https://soundcloud.com/richroll/rrp-050-the-rich-roll-podcas...
  - daliusd 12y ago
    I have listened to it. It was interesting but it was disappointing at some moments. It is interesting how conspiracy theories work both for and against his position (I will take it as irrelevant for discussion). It is interesting how some of his facts are poorly investigated. E.g. he mentioned EPIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Prospective_Investigation_into_Cancer_and_Nutrition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Prospective_Investigat...) but EPIC found only that regular consumption of PROCESSED meat increases the risk of cardiovascular diseases and death from cancer. There is no correlation between unprocessed meat and those health problems according to EPIC. BTW I'm from Europe and sometimes I visit USA. Food in USA is usually bad and usually accompanied with bad eating behaviors. You can get good food in USA but it is expensive and hard to find. I can see how changing diet to vegan/vegetarian can improve health if you are living in USA.

secabeen 12y ago

Every study cited in that wikipedia section is at least 10 years old, and the headline survey is 35-years old.

stfu 12y ago
And? Do you think smoking became all of the sudden healthy again over the last 50 years since they discovered it is a main cause for cancer? Unless there is a reasonable expectation that things have changed, studies are valid and do not get invalidated by age. Considering that a decent study might take easily a year to run and another year to get through the peer review process, 10 years are actually rather recent. I've seen papers (although in a different field) that in 2013 describe discoveries from the late 199x as "recent".
- daliusd 12y ago
  Your comparison with smoking is completely unfair. The problem is that we have scientific proof that smoking tobacco causes lung cancer (the emphasis is on "causes"). The problem with nutritional science is that we only have correlation data (or at least it looks like so).
PerfectElement 12y ago
For the new research (that haven't been proven over and over again, like the Lipid Hypothesis) go to http://nutritionfacts.org http://nutritionfacts.org and this Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/PrimitiveNutrition http://www.youtube.com/user/PrimitiveNutrition

beloch 12y ago

I live in the biggest meat-producing province in Canada. People up here love beef, and that includes beef jerky. Expensive beef jerky is made with local beef. Pretty much every supermarket and convenience store carries cheap jerky that is imported from Argentina. I don't know how much meat is produced in Brazil, but simply being next to Argentina means that their market is flooded with as much cheap beef as they could possibly want.

tanzam75 12y ago
Brazil produces almost four times as much beef as Argentina. However, Brazil has almost five times the population, so the Argentines are still ahead on a per-capita basis. In any case, the Brazilians are not about to run out of beef any time soon.
- pault 12y ago
  Anecdotally, Brazilian churrasco could be mistaken for Argentinian beef jerky.
  - greenpresident 12y ago
    I don't know the meaning churrasco has in the US but it quite literally means barbecue. So you can have a churrasco, you can go to a churrascaria, etc but it has nothing to do with beef jerky.
  - eitally 12y ago
    Then you're eating at the wrong place. What a ridiculous comment.

daliusd 12y ago

I'm now reading "The Big Fat Surprise" (http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/ http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/1451624425 http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/145162...). I have not read the whole book yet but if what is written in it is truth then there is no science I am expecting in lipid hypothesis and that's is very disappointing. I will double check some facts myself after reading this book but it is interesting. 1-star comments in amazon look valuable as well. Just spent 20 minutes by following comments, blogs and found this: http://www.foodpolitics.com/2014/03/is-saturated-fat-a-problem-food-for-debate/ http://www.foodpolitics.com/2014/03/is-saturated-fat-a-probl... http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fal...

PerfectElement 12y ago
Listen to Dr. Garth being interviewed by Rich Roll (starting at 13 min) to understand what this nutrition confusion is all about. https://soundcloud.com/richroll/rrp-050-the-rich-roll-podcast-garth-davis-ironman https://soundcloud.com/richroll/rrp-050-the-rich-roll-podcas...
- daliusd 12y ago
  I have listened to it. It was interesting but it was disappointing at some moments. It is interesting how conspiracy theories work both for and against his position (I will take it as irrelevant for discussion). It is interesting how some of his facts are poorly investigated. E.g. he mentioned EPIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Prospective_Investigation_into_Cancer_and_Nutrition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Prospective_Investigat...) but EPIC found only that regular consumption of PROCESSED meat increases the risk of cardiovascular diseases and death from cancer. There is no correlation between unprocessed meat and those health problems according to EPIC. BTW I'm from Europe and sometimes I visit USA. Food in USA is usually bad and usually accompanied with bad eating behaviors. You can get good food in USA but it is expensive and hard to find. I can see how changing diet to vegan/vegetarian can improve health if you are living in USA.