4 ms·

As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Uber's numbers actually seem a lot more believable. The author didn't even appear to be trying to be "r

by pbreit 12y ago

As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Uber's numbers actually seem a lot more believable. The author didn't even appear to be trying to be "reasonable" or "fair". The two biggest problems I see are 1) author doesn't acknowledge that Uber behavior is probably very different from regular yellow cab behavior (ie, has the author even heard of the airport or surge pricing?) and 2) I don't think it's appropriate to allocate all of an auto's expenses as "business" since it's almost always a personal car.

gedrap 12y ago
Fair points. I just disagree with >>> I don't think it's appropriate to allocate all of an auto's expenses as "business" since it's almost always a personal car. While it is a personal car, a full-time uberx driver is driving it for business purposes 75% of the time or so. Which makes it more like a business investment.
- pbreit 12y ago
  But owner has use of car for 100% of personal needs. Only incremental devaluation/expenses should be included, imo (if we're trying to be fair and reasonable, or course).
  - smacktoward 12y ago
    How is that any different from a cab driver who owns his taxi?
    - fludlight 12y ago
      My n=3 sample from conversations with taxi owner/operators in SF is that they find it more profitable to rent out their taxi to other drivers when they themselves aren't driving it. This way, an owner can drive the taxi 8 hours per day and rent it to two other people for the remaining 16 hours. The Camry Hybrid in the article is also a clear favorite due to the perceived high fuel efficiency, cheap and infrequent maintenance, and 200-250k mile battery life.
tkfu 12y ago
For (1), how do you think it applies? The situation analyzed is taken from Uber's numbers, and is for an "average" driver that works 70 hours per week. If you're working 70 hours, you're not gaining a huge advantage from surge pricing. For (2), again, this is a vehicle being used 70 hours per week, 40,000 miles per year. If you were looking at the case of a part-time driver it might not be appropriate to allocate all the expenses as business expenses, but in this case I think it is.
- pbreit 12y ago
  We don't know that they drive 70 hours per week. That was made up by the author. The author is fixated on the 10 mph in Manhattan when we know that Uber drivers have more flexibility on time and geography (they do drive outside of Manhattan, of course). The car still provides for 100% of the owners personal driving needs so completely inappropriate to allocate all costs to "business".
  - tkfu 12y ago
    To me all his assumptions seem pretty reasonable. Since Uber isn't providing a detailed breakdown, all we can do is estimate. And if we're willing to accept the basic assumption that people respond to economic incentives, remember that Uber's incentivized to be as misleading as possible in their favour. Even if it turns out they're completely lying, there's a reasonable chance that the economic benefits from building network by doing so are significantly greater than potential future costs if someone found out they'd lied. Given that context, I think the author was actually being overly generous and deferent to Uber's stated numbers. My father-in-law's an NYC taxi driver, and before that (in the 90s) worked for a black car service. So I can tell you from inside experience that you make more money in Manhattan than anywhere else, period. The fact that Uber drivers have the freedom to go to New Jersey or Far Rockaway or wherever doesn't mean that they actually get any benefit from doing so.
    - MarkPNeyer 12y ago
      the average speeds they are posting are only calculated during the day. uber does WAY more trips at night, when there is less traffic, so the cars can go much faster. source: used to work at uber.

by pbreit 12y ago

gedrap 12y ago

Fair points. I just disagree with >>> I don't think it's appropriate to allocate all of an auto's expenses as "business" since it's almost always a personal car. While it is a personal car, a full-time uberx driver is driving it for business purposes 75% of the time or so. Which makes it more like a business investment.

pbreit 12y ago
But owner has use of car for 100% of personal needs. Only incremental devaluation/expenses should be included, imo (if we're trying to be fair and reasonable, or course).
- smacktoward 12y ago
  How is that any different from a cab driver who owns his taxi?
  - fludlight 12y ago
    My n=3 sample from conversations with taxi owner/operators in SF is that they find it more profitable to rent out their taxi to other drivers when they themselves aren't driving it. This way, an owner can drive the taxi 8 hours per day and rent it to two other people for the remaining 16 hours. The Camry Hybrid in the article is also a clear favorite due to the perceived high fuel efficiency, cheap and infrequent maintenance, and 200-250k mile battery life.

tkfu 12y ago

For (1), how do you think it applies? The situation analyzed is taken from Uber's numbers, and is for an "average" driver that works 70 hours per week. If you're working 70 hours, you're not gaining a huge advantage from surge pricing. For (2), again, this is a vehicle being used 70 hours per week, 40,000 miles per year. If you were looking at the case of a part-time driver it might not be appropriate to allocate all the expenses as business expenses, but in this case I think it is.

pbreit 12y ago
We don't know that they drive 70 hours per week. That was made up by the author. The author is fixated on the 10 mph in Manhattan when we know that Uber drivers have more flexibility on time and geography (they do drive outside of Manhattan, of course). The car still provides for 100% of the owners personal driving needs so completely inappropriate to allocate all costs to "business".
- tkfu 12y ago
  To me all his assumptions seem pretty reasonable. Since Uber isn't providing a detailed breakdown, all we can do is estimate. And if we're willing to accept the basic assumption that people respond to economic incentives, remember that Uber's incentivized to be as misleading as possible in their favour. Even if it turns out they're completely lying, there's a reasonable chance that the economic benefits from building network by doing so are significantly greater than potential future costs if someone found out they'd lied. Given that context, I think the author was actually being overly generous and deferent to Uber's stated numbers. My father-in-law's an NYC taxi driver, and before that (in the 90s) worked for a black car service. So I can tell you from inside experience that you make more money in Manhattan than anywhere else, period. The fact that Uber drivers have the freedom to go to New Jersey or Far Rockaway or wherever doesn't mean that they actually get any benefit from doing so.
  - MarkPNeyer 12y ago
    the average speeds they are posting are only calculated during the day. uber does WAY more trips at night, when there is less traffic, so the cars can go much faster. source: used to work at uber.