4 ms·

I always wonder why the people who write this article fail to compare programming salaries to other professions. The writer gets all confused that the best and

by geebee 19y ago

I always wonder why the people who write this article fail to compare programming salaries to other professions. The writer gets all confused that the best and brightest young Americans aren't chomping at the bit to get into a field that pays "top programmers upwards of 100K a year" (paraphrasing here). Really, a whole 100K? Is that really so great, when you consider the options that the best and brightest young Americans have? A law grad from a top school with no experience whatsoever typically earns over $150K in his first job out. I'm not here to complain - there are all kinds of great reasons to be involved in technology and programming. If I wanted to be a lawyer, I'd go to law school. There's huge money to be made in software, especially in startups. But c'mon. Do you think the writers of these articles (because they happen over and over) just haven't thought of this? They do this every time, and never seem to consider the context (ie., other career options). Is it a deliberate omission?

geebee 19y ago
another irritating one is the way they quote 900K engineers out of China and India without considering the way the US/India/China define "engineer". I did math as an undergrad followed by an MS in engineering, and I don't think I'd be counted (certainly if I'd done a grad degree in a math department - studying the same material, I wouldn't be counted). Meanwhile, it sounds like a 3-year trade degree in China would count as an engineer. Again, there are reasonable interpretations of these numbers - I'm not saying the writer has to take my point of view. But to just chuck them out there as fact without any discussion is at best lazy journalism (again, it's such a loud omission that I start to wonder if it is deliberate).
- ajju 19y ago
  Engineering is one of the better defined/controlled degrees in India. Any accredited engineering degree is a 4 year degree and the core curriculum includes as much Math as a US engineering degree. However, very few of these schools and professors are anywhere close to the good schools and professors in the US.
  - geebee 19y ago
    I'm not at all surprised to hear that there are organizations in India that take a more restrictive definition of engineer. The problem, I think, is that we're comparing a lenient count in India and China with a very restrictive count in the US. When you count more similarly, the gap vanishes - and actually looks more favorable for the US on a per-capita basis. If you're interested, the Duke study that refutes the 350K number is available at: (warning, pdf!) http://memp.pratt.duke.edu/downloads/duke_outsourcing_2005.pdf http://memp.pratt.duke.edu/downloads/duke_outsourcing_2005.p...

by geebee 19y ago

geebee 19y ago

another irritating one is the way they quote 900K engineers out of China and India without considering the way the US/India/China define "engineer". I did math as an undergrad followed by an MS in engineering, and I don't think I'd be counted (certainly if I'd done a grad degree in a math department - studying the same material, I wouldn't be counted). Meanwhile, it sounds like a 3-year trade degree in China would count as an engineer. Again, there are reasonable interpretations of these numbers - I'm not saying the writer has to take my point of view. But to just chuck them out there as fact without any discussion is at best lazy journalism (again, it's such a loud omission that I start to wonder if it is deliberate).

ajju 19y ago
Engineering is one of the better defined/controlled degrees in India. Any accredited engineering degree is a 4 year degree and the core curriculum includes as much Math as a US engineering degree. However, very few of these schools and professors are anywhere close to the good schools and professors in the US.
- geebee 19y ago
  I'm not at all surprised to hear that there are organizations in India that take a more restrictive definition of engineer. The problem, I think, is that we're comparing a lenient count in India and China with a very restrictive count in the US. When you count more similarly, the gap vanishes - and actually looks more favorable for the US on a per-capita basis. If you're interested, the Duke study that refutes the 350K number is available at: (warning, pdf!) http://memp.pratt.duke.edu/downloads/duke_outsourcing_2005.pdf http://memp.pratt.duke.edu/downloads/duke_outsourcing_2005.p...