5 ms·

Is it common to include Javascript as a part of HTML - in the sense that they describe some of the demos as "pure HTML5?" To me that feels ... wrong. Obviousl

by nkozyra 12y ago

Is it common to include Javascript as a part of HTML - in the sense that they describe some of the demos as "pure HTML5?" To me that feels ... wrong. Obviously Javascript is a core ancillary feature for browsers, but it's not part of the markup specification itself.

adamman 12y ago
Yes, seeing as you can't really create much of an engine with just the DOM.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  Right, that's sort of my point. It seems like an attempt to avoid mentioning that JS is involved at all.
cavac 12y ago
When they say "pure HTML" they mean, that they access the HTML api directly. The non pure HTML examples use third party javascript libraries as an layer between the html api and their own javascript code.
CmonDev 12y ago
Don't forget that web is a legacy platform, so there is not much logic in naming. GUI is not a hyper-text as well, documents are. So basically "HTML5 Game Engine" is very misleading when understood literally. Practically though it means putting a bunch of scripts together, so that they could be scripted by someone else. Scripting the scripts basically.
- psionski 12y ago
  It's a game engine that relies on HTML5 elements for rendering, audio and scripting. I don't find that misleading :)
  - _random_ 12y ago
    HTML: Hypertext Markup Language. Hypertext: is text displayed on a computer display or other electronic devices with references (hyperlinks) to other text which the reader can immediately access... So it's a game engine that relies on something that is, according to definition a text-only language. Are you really into ASCII games? Otherwise the name is very misleading. For legacy reasons.
    - psionski 12y ago
      HTML5 - the number in the name is important, this is a brand that represents a set of supported APIs and tags (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/web/Guide/HTML/HTML5 https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/web/Guide/HTML/HTML5). They are obviously not talking about the markup language itself.
      - _random_ 12y ago
        They equally could've called it SQL256 or XML2000 and then explain that it doesn't mean what the abbreviation states. I guess there is no need to argue for us, but personally prefer names that reflect the nature precisely. At least this is how I name my programming constructs and projects.
        psionski 12y ago
        I know it's stupid, but the other alternative is calling it "HTML5&friends Game Engine", like the Mozilla guide suggests... Technically correct, but just as vague and now it sounds like a kid's show... I think we can easily agree this is not an improvement :) The real name, which is "HTML5 + JavaScript + Canvas API + WebGL API + Web Audio API + Web Workers API + jQuery (for good measure, not actually used) + CSS3 Game Engine", doesn't fit on a t-shirt and, when put in a title tag, probably crashes older browsers and causes a Google employee to come and manually set your PageRank to -1.
oso2k 12y ago
"Pure HTML5" is intended to convey the maturity of "The Web" as an application platform, much like J2EE, J2ME, .Net before it. It no longer means a purely markup solution, but is also restricted to a "plug-in free" user experience for compatible web browsers. This evident when you see the W3C's HTML5 Badge Builder [1] and note all the APIs it allows you to specify. [1] http://www.w3.org/html/logo/#badge-builder http://www.w3.org/html/logo/#badge-builder
- _random_ 12y ago
  So the idea is to use a big monolithic multi-API thing as opposed to modular plug-in based system?
psionski 12y ago
No, "pure HTML5" has a specific meaning in the gamedev community - it's the combination of HTML5 elements like canvas, video and audio with JavaScript for the game logic, i.e. using the browser as a game engine (it's actually pretty cool, the APIs are very high-level and well-suited for the task) as opposed to using an actual game engine, like you normally would.

by nkozyra 12y ago

adamman 12y ago

Yes, seeing as you can't really create much of an engine with just the DOM.

nkozyra 12y ago
Right, that's sort of my point. It seems like an attempt to avoid mentioning that JS is involved at all.

cavac 12y ago

When they say "pure HTML" they mean, that they access the HTML api directly. The non pure HTML examples use third party javascript libraries as an layer between the html api and their own javascript code.

CmonDev 12y ago

Don't forget that web is a legacy platform, so there is not much logic in naming. GUI is not a hyper-text as well, documents are. So basically "HTML5 Game Engine" is very misleading when understood literally. Practically though it means putting a bunch of scripts together, so that they could be scripted by someone else. Scripting the scripts basically.

psionski 12y ago
It's a game engine that relies on HTML5 elements for rendering, audio and scripting. I don't find that misleading :)
- _random_ 12y ago
  HTML: Hypertext Markup Language. Hypertext: is text displayed on a computer display or other electronic devices with references (hyperlinks) to other text which the reader can immediately access... So it's a game engine that relies on something that is, according to definition a text-only language. Are you really into ASCII games? Otherwise the name is very misleading. For legacy reasons.
  - psionski 12y ago
    HTML5 - the number in the name is important, this is a brand that represents a set of supported APIs and tags (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/web/Guide/HTML/HTML5 https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/web/Guide/HTML/HTML5). They are obviously not talking about the markup language itself.
    - _random_ 12y ago
      They equally could've called it SQL256 or XML2000 and then explain that it doesn't mean what the abbreviation states. I guess there is no need to argue for us, but personally prefer names that reflect the nature precisely. At least this is how I name my programming constructs and projects.
      - psionski 12y ago
        I know it's stupid, but the other alternative is calling it "HTML5&friends Game Engine", like the Mozilla guide suggests... Technically correct, but just as vague and now it sounds like a kid's show... I think we can easily agree this is not an improvement :) The real name, which is "HTML5 + JavaScript + Canvas API + WebGL API + Web Audio API + Web Workers API + jQuery (for good measure, not actually used) + CSS3 Game Engine", doesn't fit on a t-shirt and, when put in a title tag, probably crashes older browsers and causes a Google employee to come and manually set your PageRank to -1.

oso2k 12y ago

"Pure HTML5" is intended to convey the maturity of "The Web" as an application platform, much like J2EE, J2ME, .Net before it. It no longer means a purely markup solution, but is also restricted to a "plug-in free" user experience for compatible web browsers. This evident when you see the W3C's HTML5 Badge Builder [1] and note all the APIs it allows you to specify. [1] http://www.w3.org/html/logo/#badge-builder http://www.w3.org/html/logo/#badge-builder

_random_ 12y ago
So the idea is to use a big monolithic multi-API thing as opposed to modular plug-in based system?

psionski 12y ago

No, "pure HTML5" has a specific meaning in the gamedev community - it's the combination of HTML5 elements like canvas, video and audio with JavaScript for the game logic, i.e. using the browser as a game engine (it's actually pretty cool, the APIs are very high-level and well-suited for the task) as opposed to using an actual game engine, like you normally would.