7 ms·

Based on the screenshots it seem KDE devs tone down their interface to simpler visuals (icons, colours, shades and all the blingbling I usually associate KDE wi

Based on the screenshots it seem KDE devs tone down their interface to simpler visuals (icons, colours, shades and all the blingbling I usually associate KDE with). Is that the trend for the next iteration of KDE ? (I like it)

veeti 12y ago
Yes, they have a new design project: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/ http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/ Although in my opinion their work hasn't exactly been a huge improvement so far. It's just a flatter coat of paint with the same issues that already plague KDE: inconsistent padding and spacing, terrible organization (think system settings) and so on.
- KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
  You link to a blog and yet you apparently don't read it. KDE System Settings is being redisigned as well. Just scroll down a bit: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-new-vdg-members.html http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-n... The redesign is not in this beta and, depending how long it takes, maybe won't make it into the first final release either. Partially it's even by design. It's not intended that Plasma 5 diverges too much from the current release to ease the transition.
  - nailer 12y ago
    Nice: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-new-vdg-members.html http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-n... That said, at the top level the breadcrumbs on the left aren't needed.
    - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
      I bet your voice is better heard over at the VDG forum on kde.org ;-)
      - nailer 12y ago
        That's not me, that's a well known general design principle: "It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away." I did a lot of Linux desktop stuff 10 years ago. Now I feel most of the action takes place inside the browser. KDE's biggest contribution to computing will always be KHTML.
  - ama729 12y ago
    I have to say, this[1] looks downright impressive. Congrats everyone! Edit: To add a bit more to the conversation, does the change from Canonical to Blue Systems[2] changed much to the development of Kubuntu/KDE? [1] https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-asFPvnoidnw/U4cXbGCcv2I/AAAAAAAAM3I/dEIyVSNFf_w/s1600/SystemSettings-New_zpsce8cb0ac.png https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-asFPvnoidnw/U4cXbGCcv2I/AAAAAAAAM... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Systems
    - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
      Canonical never contributed much to KDE. Yes, a few bits here and there but overall mostly negligible. Blue Systems OTOH is a big KDE contributor. Things like KDE Search improved a lot thanks to Blue's involvement. As for Kubuntu: It appears to me that mostly the same people are involved with it. The only KDE thing mostly specific to Kubuntu is Muon (and that's being ported to Debian as we speak). Everything else by Blue Systems is AFAIK cross-distro. The Kubuntu guys already announced that Canonical's own display server Mir is not an option. Therefore it remains to be seen how feasible Kubuntu remains with Canonical pushing a Wayland competitor.
    - baldfat 12y ago
      Only my opinion and probably wrong BUT KUbuntu = Worst KDE integration and the cause for why so many people have a negative view of KDE! OpenSUSE = Best KDE integration
      - pestaa 12y ago
        What makes you say KDE is badly integrated in Kubuntu?
        KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
        Kubuntu constantly ships pre-release software. One example in the current "stable" LTS is this touchpad config panel: http://imgur.com/JIuCNqg http://imgur.com/JIuCNqg
      - Zardoz84 12y ago
  - veeti 12y ago
    Yes, I read it and I know the settings are being redesigned. The system settings is just one example and perhaps the most egregious. It's also the one that is still a constant annoyance after years of using KDE when trying to find something.
    - vacri 12y ago
      Try a different heavy DE and see if you can even find the settings these days. I hadn't used KDE since back when they first released 4 and have just started using it again. I'm loving it - a heavyweight DE where things are properly integrated (sorry XFCE and similar) and that you can actually personally tune the settings for. The settings can be a little difficult to find... but at least they're there to be found :)
      - keithpeter 12y ago
        Xubuntu 14.04, xfwm-whisker-menu bound to Super-Space, Finding settings: Press Super-and-Space type 'set...' Gnome 3.x, just about any version, e.g. RHEL7 RC Finding settings: Press Super, type 'set...' Windows 8 Press Windows key, type 'control' Windows 7 Press Windows key and letter R and type 'control' Seriously, each of us uses what we find best and produces work. Settings tend to be easy to find these days
        wlesieutre 12y ago
        Windows key and type 'control' applies on Windows 7 as well. When the start menu opens, the search box has focus.
        keithpeter 12y ago
        Thanks, could not remember (at home, no Win7 machine)
        vacri 12y ago
        Seriously, it was a rhetorical statement that didn't mean "no-one can literally find the settings", but "you're not allowed to change much these days". Gnome 3.x in particular is horribly bad. KDE allows a lot of tweaking.
- leorocky 12y ago
  Their icons are not good. Too glassy and cartoony and too many gradients. They don't look modern, they look like icons for a kids app from 10 years ago.
  - zanny 12y ago
    They are planning to adopt Font Awesome as the default icon theme. Right now they are still using the old Oxygen set. And at that, you can pick your own icon themes anyway. There are Hycons, Numix, Faenza, etc. I do agree defaults matter and the Oxygen icon set is gaudy, but it shouldn't stop an HN user from trying it since you can change them.
- zanny 12y ago
  Note that the wheeldesigners are just making a new default theme. With minor tweaks all kde 4 series themes are still usable. Also, the inconsistencies are mostly due to app developers themselves. The difference between plasma and the software compilation can exemplify that - you use two entirely different application stacks if you are developing for one or the other (qt widgets enhanced by kdelibs vs qml enhanced by plasma). And then there are multiple ways to actually develop the app interfaces - you can use anchor based widgets, ui files, or raw custom positioning which I find in reviewing a lot of codebases a bit too common for my liking. When I have the time I try to fix it, though. The problem right now is that while the Qt world's future is QML based, the KDE applications and libraries were developed for over a decade around widgets. So when I develop something new I'm using QML and it can scale, animate, and orient really well for arbitrary window sizes and devices, but some widgets applications just anchor a toolbar to 50px indents and then it looks like puke on high DPI. I mean you can still do that in QML, but the anchors and layouts are so easy to use it seems insane to do so.
pestaa 12y ago
I hope this trend continues. Mainstream desktop environments sort of lost their roots. I never wanted widgets, I just need to organize my windows!
- davidgerard 12y ago
  Is Xfce mainstream yet? It's pretty popular for a non-default desktop - I can't find the cite, but I have a vague memory of something like 16% of Ubuntu being Xubuntu.
  - pestaa 12y ago
    In Linux circles, I'd say yes, it's pretty well known. It used to be my choice of DE, but takes a lot of tinkering and is not as feature complete as KDE is (which is a plus for others, I suspect).
  - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
    It's mainstream in the sense that the Gnome community fragmented so much in recent years (see Mate and Cinnamon "spin offs") that these days Xfce has roughly the same mind share as Gnome -- if the recent poll on Slashdot it any indication. http://slashdot.org/poll/2751/which-desktop-environment-do-you-like-the-best http://slashdot.org/poll/2751/which-desktop-environment-do-y...
  - velodrome 12y ago
    No, XFCE development is very slow. Last I checked, I think they still working on GTK 3 support. LXDE/Lubuntu is probably closer to that "16%." I can get <200M initial RAM usage pretty easily with LXDE. XFCE is really not that lightweight. They are both pretty lacking compared to current versions of GNOME/KDE.
  - vacri 12y ago
    Debian is currently considering shifting it's default desktop to XFCE, as guh-nome has taken some ridiculous turns for the worse. It'd be a good step for XFCE, as it'd start getting a lot more attention to the areas where the integration is lacking.
Touche 12y ago
But they're still using those gaudy start menu icons that looked gaudy 5 years ago.
- zanny 12y ago
  The developers intend to adopt Font Awesome as the icon theme, they are just designing all the missing icons in the background right now. Which probably includes the start menu icons. And remember you can change the icon theme. Numix, Faenza, and Hycons are all popular alternatives available already. Though I'm still using the Oxygen icons on kde4 because all those themes are missing swathes of icons...

veeti 12y ago

Yes, they have a new design project: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/ http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/ Although in my opinion their work hasn't exactly been a huge improvement so far. It's just a flatter coat of paint with the same issues that already plague KDE: inconsistent padding and spacing, terrible organization (think system settings) and so on.

KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
You link to a blog and yet you apparently don't read it. KDE System Settings is being redisigned as well. Just scroll down a bit: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-new-vdg-members.html http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-n... The redesign is not in this beta and, depending how long it takes, maybe won't make it into the first final release either. Partially it's even by design. It's not intended that Plasma 5 diverges too much from the current release to ease the transition.
- nailer 12y ago
  Nice: http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-new-vdg-members.html http://wheeldesign.blogspot.fi/2014/05/system-settings-and-n... That said, at the top level the breadcrumbs on the left aren't needed.
  - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
    I bet your voice is better heard over at the VDG forum on kde.org ;-)
    - nailer 12y ago
      That's not me, that's a well known general design principle: "It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away." I did a lot of Linux desktop stuff 10 years ago. Now I feel most of the action takes place inside the browser. KDE's biggest contribution to computing will always be KHTML.
- ama729 12y ago
  I have to say, this[1] looks downright impressive. Congrats everyone! Edit: To add a bit more to the conversation, does the change from Canonical to Blue Systems[2] changed much to the development of Kubuntu/KDE? [1] https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-asFPvnoidnw/U4cXbGCcv2I/AAAAAAAAM3I/dEIyVSNFf_w/s1600/SystemSettings-New_zpsce8cb0ac.png https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-asFPvnoidnw/U4cXbGCcv2I/AAAAAAAAM... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Systems
  - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
    Canonical never contributed much to KDE. Yes, a few bits here and there but overall mostly negligible. Blue Systems OTOH is a big KDE contributor. Things like KDE Search improved a lot thanks to Blue's involvement. As for Kubuntu: It appears to me that mostly the same people are involved with it. The only KDE thing mostly specific to Kubuntu is Muon (and that's being ported to Debian as we speak). Everything else by Blue Systems is AFAIK cross-distro. The Kubuntu guys already announced that Canonical's own display server Mir is not an option. Therefore it remains to be seen how feasible Kubuntu remains with Canonical pushing a Wayland competitor.
  - baldfat 12y ago
    Only my opinion and probably wrong BUT KUbuntu = Worst KDE integration and the cause for why so many people have a negative view of KDE! OpenSUSE = Best KDE integration
    - pestaa 12y ago
      What makes you say KDE is badly integrated in Kubuntu?
      - KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
        Kubuntu constantly ships pre-release software. One example in the current "stable" LTS is this touchpad config panel: http://imgur.com/JIuCNqg http://imgur.com/JIuCNqg
    - Zardoz84 12y ago
- veeti 12y ago
  Yes, I read it and I know the settings are being redesigned. The system settings is just one example and perhaps the most egregious. It's also the one that is still a constant annoyance after years of using KDE when trying to find something.
  - vacri 12y ago
    Try a different heavy DE and see if you can even find the settings these days. I hadn't used KDE since back when they first released 4 and have just started using it again. I'm loving it - a heavyweight DE where things are properly integrated (sorry XFCE and similar) and that you can actually personally tune the settings for. The settings can be a little difficult to find... but at least they're there to be found :)
    - keithpeter 12y ago
      Xubuntu 14.04, xfwm-whisker-menu bound to Super-Space, Finding settings: Press Super-and-Space type 'set...' Gnome 3.x, just about any version, e.g. RHEL7 RC Finding settings: Press Super, type 'set...' Windows 8 Press Windows key, type 'control' Windows 7 Press Windows key and letter R and type 'control' Seriously, each of us uses what we find best and produces work. Settings tend to be easy to find these days
      - wlesieutre 12y ago
        Windows key and type 'control' applies on Windows 7 as well. When the start menu opens, the search box has focus.
        keithpeter 12y ago
        Thanks, could not remember (at home, no Win7 machine)
      - vacri 12y ago
        Seriously, it was a rhetorical statement that didn't mean "no-one can literally find the settings", but "you're not allowed to change much these days". Gnome 3.x in particular is horribly bad. KDE allows a lot of tweaking.
leorocky 12y ago
Their icons are not good. Too glassy and cartoony and too many gradients. They don't look modern, they look like icons for a kids app from 10 years ago.
- zanny 12y ago
  They are planning to adopt Font Awesome as the default icon theme. Right now they are still using the old Oxygen set. And at that, you can pick your own icon themes anyway. There are Hycons, Numix, Faenza, etc. I do agree defaults matter and the Oxygen icon set is gaudy, but it shouldn't stop an HN user from trying it since you can change them.
zanny 12y ago
Note that the wheeldesigners are just making a new default theme. With minor tweaks all kde 4 series themes are still usable. Also, the inconsistencies are mostly due to app developers themselves. The difference between plasma and the software compilation can exemplify that - you use two entirely different application stacks if you are developing for one or the other (qt widgets enhanced by kdelibs vs qml enhanced by plasma). And then there are multiple ways to actually develop the app interfaces - you can use anchor based widgets, ui files, or raw custom positioning which I find in reviewing a lot of codebases a bit too common for my liking. When I have the time I try to fix it, though. The problem right now is that while the Qt world's future is QML based, the KDE applications and libraries were developed for over a decade around widgets. So when I develop something new I'm using QML and it can scale, animate, and orient really well for arbitrary window sizes and devices, but some widgets applications just anchor a toolbar to 50px indents and then it looks like puke on high DPI. I mean you can still do that in QML, but the anchors and layouts are so easy to use it seems insane to do so.

pestaa 12y ago

I hope this trend continues. Mainstream desktop environments sort of lost their roots. I never wanted widgets, I just need to organize my windows!

davidgerard 12y ago
Is Xfce mainstream yet? It's pretty popular for a non-default desktop - I can't find the cite, but I have a vague memory of something like 16% of Ubuntu being Xubuntu.
- pestaa 12y ago
  In Linux circles, I'd say yes, it's pretty well known. It used to be my choice of DE, but takes a lot of tinkering and is not as feature complete as KDE is (which is a plus for others, I suspect).
- KAMiKAZOW 12y ago
  It's mainstream in the sense that the Gnome community fragmented so much in recent years (see Mate and Cinnamon "spin offs") that these days Xfce has roughly the same mind share as Gnome -- if the recent poll on Slashdot it any indication. http://slashdot.org/poll/2751/which-desktop-environment-do-you-like-the-best http://slashdot.org/poll/2751/which-desktop-environment-do-y...
- velodrome 12y ago
  No, XFCE development is very slow. Last I checked, I think they still working on GTK 3 support. LXDE/Lubuntu is probably closer to that "16%." I can get <200M initial RAM usage pretty easily with LXDE. XFCE is really not that lightweight. They are both pretty lacking compared to current versions of GNOME/KDE.
- vacri 12y ago
  Debian is currently considering shifting it's default desktop to XFCE, as guh-nome has taken some ridiculous turns for the worse. It'd be a good step for XFCE, as it'd start getting a lot more attention to the areas where the integration is lacking.

Touche 12y ago

But they're still using those gaudy start menu icons that looked gaudy 5 years ago.

zanny 12y ago
The developers intend to adopt Font Awesome as the icon theme, they are just designing all the missing icons in the background right now. Which probably includes the start menu icons. And remember you can change the icon theme. Numix, Faenza, and Hycons are all popular alternatives available already. Though I'm still using the Oxygen icons on kde4 because all those themes are missing swathes of icons...