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Until somebody uses your open wireless for child porn and the cops come asking you questions.

Matt_Cutts 12y ago
An interesting counterpoint from Bruce Schneier: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirel...
- lucb1e 12y ago
  I've had enough experience with being cut off first and asked questions second. Running a server at home, this wasn't pleasant. I don't fancy trying out how often random people manage to cause abuse reports with my ISP - let alone the police. Besides, wireless isn't magically limited to the confounds of my home and garden. It's not basic politeness like a cup of tea as the page claims.
- joosters 12y ago
  He has been having second thoughts though: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/04/security_risks_7.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/04/security_risk...
- adrianN 12y ago
  And yes, if someone did commit a crime using my network the police might visit, but what better defense is there than the fact that I have an open wireless network? If I enabled wireless security on my network and someone hacked it, I would have a far harder time proving my innocence. In Germany this defense wouldn't really help you much. You're (partially) responsible for the crimes that are committed over your unsecured network. It's called "Mitstörerhaftung".
  - pyvpx 12y ago
    I can attest as an American in Berlin -- Germans are VERY serious about their privacy. this is especially true when related to the network/internets.
  - Tomte 12y ago
    No, Mitstörerhaftung is a purely civil concept that does not -- and could never -- extend to criminal law.
- dagw 12y ago
  Where does he live? It makes a huge difference if he lives in a farm house in the middle of a field or if he lives in an apartment building in the middle of a a large city. If you live in such a way that the only way for me to see your network is to sit in my car in your driveway, then perhaps. However, from the comfort of my sofa in my living room i can 'see' at about a dozen different wifi networks (and by extension at least a dozen people can see my wifi network from their sofa). That kind of changes the math a bit. I don't want a dozen people torrenting off my network, not because I'm afraid of getting in trouble, but because it degrades my ability to use my network.
toddkaufmann 12y ago
Yes; this happened to me. They didn't come asking questions so much as having a search warrant... http://bit.ly/seizure1111 http://bit.ly/seizure1111
- drbawb 12y ago
  > ... they asked [us] to wait outside while they conducted a preliminary search ... Is that legally enforceable? They have a search warrant, not a warrant for your arrest. How are they in a position to demand you leave the premises? That's some scary stuff either way, thanks for sharing.
marssaxman 12y ago
How often does this actually happen? I am just not worried about it. I have been running open wireless access points at every home I've lived in for the past fourteen years.

An interesting counterpoint from Bruce Schneier: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirel...

lucb1e 12y ago
I've had enough experience with being cut off first and asked questions second. Running a server at home, this wasn't pleasant. I don't fancy trying out how often random people manage to cause abuse reports with my ISP - let alone the police. Besides, wireless isn't magically limited to the confounds of my home and garden. It's not basic politeness like a cup of tea as the page claims.
joosters 12y ago
He has been having second thoughts though: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/04/security_risks_7.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/04/security_risk...
adrianN 12y ago
And yes, if someone did commit a crime using my network the police might visit, but what better defense is there than the fact that I have an open wireless network? If I enabled wireless security on my network and someone hacked it, I would have a far harder time proving my innocence. In Germany this defense wouldn't really help you much. You're (partially) responsible for the crimes that are committed over your unsecured network. It's called "Mitstörerhaftung".
- pyvpx 12y ago
  I can attest as an American in Berlin -- Germans are VERY serious about their privacy. this is especially true when related to the network/internets.
- Tomte 12y ago
  No, Mitstörerhaftung is a purely civil concept that does not -- and could never -- extend to criminal law.
dagw 12y ago
Where does he live? It makes a huge difference if he lives in a farm house in the middle of a field or if he lives in an apartment building in the middle of a a large city. If you live in such a way that the only way for me to see your network is to sit in my car in your driveway, then perhaps. However, from the comfort of my sofa in my living room i can 'see' at about a dozen different wifi networks (and by extension at least a dozen people can see my wifi network from their sofa). That kind of changes the math a bit. I don't want a dozen people torrenting off my network, not because I'm afraid of getting in trouble, but because it degrades my ability to use my network.

toddkaufmann 12y ago

Yes; this happened to me. They didn't come asking questions so much as having a search warrant... http://bit.ly/seizure1111 http://bit.ly/seizure1111

drbawb 12y ago
> ... they asked [us] to wait outside while they conducted a preliminary search ... Is that legally enforceable? They have a search warrant, not a warrant for your arrest. How are they in a position to demand you leave the premises? That's some scary stuff either way, thanks for sharing.

marssaxman 12y ago

How often does this actually happen? I am just not worried about it. I have been running open wireless access points at every home I've lived in for the past fourteen years.