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I'm from Argentina, and used to work (a long time ago though) with developers from Venezuela an Brazil. Not even an entry level developer makes U$d5000 a year,

I'm from Argentina, and used to work (a long time ago though) with developers from Venezuela an Brazil. Not even an entry level developer makes U$d5000 a year, unless he is not working full time and even that would be stretching it. Entry level jobs in shitty places get you arround u$d7500/8000 a year. First job in a big company after you graduate gets you arround u$d11000/year, and with 2 or 3 years of experience you can get u$d15000/year easily if you are worth the investment. Upper tier jobs (manager, project leader or research for a big corporation, working remotely for someone in the US/Europe, consulting) start in u$d20000/year and can easily get to u$d30000/year. That is using Argentina's and Venezuela's black market exchange rate, or Brazil's official one. In Argentina even a PhD candidate gets more than u$d5000 a year from his publicly funded University. No idea about Brazil/Venezuela on this.

conanbatt 12y ago
Im not disputing your numbers with confidence, but some look a bit too high. Which company pays 11000+ pesos a month for someone without work experience? The big guys, like Globant or IBM surely dont. Making 15000 pesos a month is far from average for a programmer in buenos aires even with a few years of xp.
- pedrosorio 12y ago
  The parent comment talks about 11000 dollars per year. According to google that translates to less than 7500 Argentine pesos per month: https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos
  - conanbatt 12y ago
    That is using the 'official' rate, which the rate the central bank forces(if you transfer money to argentina, the central bank will keep the dollars and give you pesos) you to sell your dollars to(about 8.05). But you cant buy dollars from the central bank, so you have to get them 'illegaly', which is between 11 and 12 pesos per dollar today. Thats what the OP refers to with black market exchange. Disclosure: I am also Argentinian
novaleaf 12y ago
Thailand's pay scales are very similar. entry level devs from a CS degree can expect a minimum of 7500 usd/year at the sub 50 percentile.
GFischer 12y ago
I have the stats from the Uruguayan Chamber of Software (CUTI), for the average salaries here in Uruguay (which is admittedly one of the better paying countries in South America) based on 330 companies (most are small, low-paying shops), and from my experience, they're what people are actually getting (in the IT industry, service companies pay more): Monthly salary before taxes (take home pay is between 80% to 60% for the highest salaries) Junior Dev (0 to 3 years): U$ 1000/month - U$ 12.000 year before taxes (but almost untaxed, maybe 10% in taxes) Intermediate (3 to 7 years): U$ 1250/month - U$ 15.000 year before taxes Senior (> 7 years or exceptional): U$ 1850/month - U$ 22.000 a year before taxes Tech Lead/Super Senior: average U$ 2500/month (before taxes) so U$ 30.000 a year before taxes Project Manager (Dev Lead or actual manager, not PM role): average U$ 2500/month (before taxes) so U$ 30.000 a year before taxes Many of the better and smarter developers either open up their own consulting shops (making a lot more than those averages), or work remotely. The best developers I know of make about U$ 40.000/year before taxes. I'm currently stuck at the "senior" level, the thing is the cost of living isn't that much cheaper than in other countries so I really want to make more, so I must start working remotely if I want to break the salary barriers here.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- conanbatt 12y ago
  You can get 40% taxes on high income? thats nuts. The cost of living in SF is crazy, 40k in Argentina , in terms of nominal value, after taxes are probably around 32k/y, 2600 net dollars per month. Rent of a 1 bedroom place in a decent neightborgood=> 400 U$S a month. Grocieries, living costs, going out,etc,say..250 U$S? Lets make you a party animal and big spender at 400 U$S a month for that. So after takes and expenses, 40k a year in argentina yields you 1800U$S a month. In san francisco, a 1br for yourself is 2k a month at least. Work often provides food, but if it doesnt, at 10 dollars a meal avg you get 10 x 30 x 2 = 600U$S in food alone. Restaurants, shows, going out, drinks, add 200 U$S a month, if you go out weekly. That ends up being about 2800 U$S per month only on rent+food. To be able to nominally save 1800U$S a month, you have to make 4600U$S pre-tax, which at 28% taxes, ends up being about 70k annual income. The point of this exercise is to measure the impact of cost of living on salary: it definitely makes a dent(you need 30k a year more in San Francisco for the cost of living difference). However, its very easy to make 100k+ in the bay area working for a startup (and more if you work for facebook or google), which means you will always make way more money working in a startup in the us,than any income bracket in uruguay. (assumption: cost of living in Uruguay ~= Argentina)

conanbatt 12y ago

Im not disputing your numbers with confidence, but some look a bit too high. Which company pays 11000+ pesos a month for someone without work experience? The big guys, like Globant or IBM surely dont. Making 15000 pesos a month is far from average for a programmer in buenos aires even with a few years of xp.

pedrosorio 12y ago
The parent comment talks about 11000 dollars per year. According to google that translates to less than 7500 Argentine pesos per month: https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos
- conanbatt 12y ago
  That is using the 'official' rate, which the rate the central bank forces(if you transfer money to argentina, the central bank will keep the dollars and give you pesos) you to sell your dollars to(about 8.05). But you cant buy dollars from the central bank, so you have to get them 'illegaly', which is between 11 and 12 pesos per dollar today. Thats what the OP refers to with black market exchange. Disclosure: I am also Argentinian

novaleaf 12y ago

Thailand's pay scales are very similar. entry level devs from a CS degree can expect a minimum of 7500 usd/year at the sub 50 percentile.

GFischer 12y ago

I have the stats from the Uruguayan Chamber of Software (CUTI), for the average salaries here in Uruguay (which is admittedly one of the better paying countries in South America) based on 330 companies (most are small, low-paying shops), and from my experience, they're what people are actually getting (in the IT industry, service companies pay more): Monthly salary before taxes (take home pay is between 80% to 60% for the highest salaries) Junior Dev (0 to 3 years): U$ 1000/month - U$ 12.000 year before taxes (but almost untaxed, maybe 10% in taxes) Intermediate (3 to 7 years): U$ 1250/month - U$ 15.000 year before taxes Senior (> 7 years or exceptional): U$ 1850/month - U$ 22.000 a year before taxes Tech Lead/Super Senior: average U$ 2500/month (before taxes) so U$ 30.000 a year before taxes Project Manager (Dev Lead or actual manager, not PM role): average U$ 2500/month (before taxes) so U$ 30.000 a year before taxes Many of the better and smarter developers either open up their own consulting shops (making a lot more than those averages), or work remotely. The best developers I know of make about U$ 40.000/year before taxes. I'm currently stuck at the "senior" level, the thing is the cost of living isn't that much cheaper than in other countries so I really want to make more, so I must start working remotely if I want to break the salary barriers here.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
conanbatt 12y ago
You can get 40% taxes on high income? thats nuts. The cost of living in SF is crazy, 40k in Argentina , in terms of nominal value, after taxes are probably around 32k/y, 2600 net dollars per month. Rent of a 1 bedroom place in a decent neightborgood=> 400 U$S a month. Grocieries, living costs, going out,etc,say..250 U$S? Lets make you a party animal and big spender at 400 U$S a month for that. So after takes and expenses, 40k a year in argentina yields you 1800U$S a month. In san francisco, a 1br for yourself is 2k a month at least. Work often provides food, but if it doesnt, at 10 dollars a meal avg you get 10 x 30 x 2 = 600U$S in food alone. Restaurants, shows, going out, drinks, add 200 U$S a month, if you go out weekly. That ends up being about 2800 U$S per month only on rent+food. To be able to nominally save 1800U$S a month, you have to make 4600U$S pre-tax, which at 28% taxes, ends up being about 70k annual income. The point of this exercise is to measure the impact of cost of living on salary: it definitely makes a dent(you need 30k a year more in San Francisco for the cost of living difference). However, its very easy to make 100k+ in the bay area working for a startup (and more if you work for facebook or google), which means you will always make way more money working in a startup in the us,than any income bracket in uruguay. (assumption: cost of living in Uruguay ~= Argentina)