4 ms·

I think the courts are a better solution for that problem. Having a couple "crazy science teachers" with tenure shouldn't even count as a solution IMO - especi

by dlss 12y ago

I think the courts are a better solution for that problem. Having a couple "crazy science teachers" with tenure shouldn't even count as a solution IMO - especially if that causes people to be more careful about who they give tenure to... EDIT: I said "better solution" not "perfect solution". I would love if you speculate about what a perfect solution is though!

opendais 12y ago
School administrators, not teachers, are the elected crazies.
joeclark77 12y ago
The courts? Have a judge pick the textbook? I can't think of anything that could possibly go wrong. School choice is the solution. Let parents hold the schools accountable, because they're the only ones (apparently) who put the kids' education ahead of political pet causes.
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  School choice may not be a viable option for lower income families, especially in non-urban settings.
  - refurb 12y ago
    It would be under a voucher system, but the teacher's union doesn't like that idea.
    - pavel_lishin 12y ago
      It's been awhile (high school) since I've read about voucher system; how do they work nowadays? Is there a way to cover transportation cost and time?
    - opendais 12y ago
      A voucher system that properly enabled children in poor neighborhoods (by covering the related costs) would be a good idea.
    - ironchef 12y ago
      It's not just the union as charter schools are (in general) just as mixed of a bag as public schools. There was a Stanford study back in 2009 that spanned 16 states and showed around 20 percent of charters outperformed and 35 percent of charters underperformed their peer public schools. Actually this reminds me they were supposed to have another round of outcomes last year or so. I'll have to go and see again how things have changed. (Offhand, it wouldn't surprise me if it's relatively close overall).
- rrss1122 12y ago
  That's why lawmakers often want a voucher system, to give the lower income students the power of school choice.
  - joeclark77 12y ago
    You don't have to sell me on the idea, brother, I've been supporting vouchers since I heard of them. I think you're overly optimistic that there are "lawmakers" on our side, though. Even those from the ostensibly free-market party, when they get into power, rarely support programs that would reduce their own sphere of influence. It's hard to get re-elected by saying "Look what I didn't do for you."
    - opendais 12y ago
      School choice only works if it is enough to cover all the external costs as well as all the tuition at a private school. No lawmaker and few citizens are willing to pay for that. ;)
      - glenra 12y ago
        The average private school costs quite a lot less than the average public school. You could spend about half as much per student and still get safer kids and happier parents. So what "external costs" are you thinking of? Going to a private school does involve travel, but so does going to your assigned public school. Depending on how the district lines are drawn and how centralized the district is, the trip might even be shorter.
        opendais 12y ago
        Source? When my ex girlfriend was shopping around for a private school the private schools in the area were both: A) More expensive (by about $3-5k/year) than what the local district spends. B) Were generally further and didn't provide a bus to pick the kids/drop them off at that distance.
        12y ago
roc 12y ago
> "I think the courts are a better solution for that problem." So who sues? The students who are under-served by a public education system that doesn't teach evolution? Let's suppose they find a jury of their peers that agrees, what does the court decision look like? A mandate for the hiring or retention of at least one teacher who will teach evolution? (Likely with redundancies. People retire, change jobs, get sick, etc.) And to ensure the ruling is respected one would imagine the district would have to go to further lengths to prove cause, if they ever want to remove that teacher, right? So all we'll have done is move the tenure track to the court docket, but only for those students/concerns that can shoulder the legal costs to pursue their rights, inevitably providing poorer service to poorer students and those seeking protections for minority concerns (which are disproportionately less likely to win a court case).

by dlss 12y ago

opendais 12y ago

School administrators, not teachers, are the elected crazies.

joeclark77 12y ago

The courts? Have a judge pick the textbook? I can't think of anything that could possibly go wrong. School choice is the solution. Let parents hold the schools accountable, because they're the only ones (apparently) who put the kids' education ahead of political pet causes.

pavel_lishin 12y ago
School choice may not be a viable option for lower income families, especially in non-urban settings.
- refurb 12y ago
  It would be under a voucher system, but the teacher's union doesn't like that idea.
  - pavel_lishin 12y ago
    It's been awhile (high school) since I've read about voucher system; how do they work nowadays? Is there a way to cover transportation cost and time?
  - opendais 12y ago
    A voucher system that properly enabled children in poor neighborhoods (by covering the related costs) would be a good idea.
  - ironchef 12y ago
    It's not just the union as charter schools are (in general) just as mixed of a bag as public schools. There was a Stanford study back in 2009 that spanned 16 states and showed around 20 percent of charters outperformed and 35 percent of charters underperformed their peer public schools. Actually this reminds me they were supposed to have another round of outcomes last year or so. I'll have to go and see again how things have changed. (Offhand, it wouldn't surprise me if it's relatively close overall).
rrss1122 12y ago
That's why lawmakers often want a voucher system, to give the lower income students the power of school choice.
- joeclark77 12y ago
  You don't have to sell me on the idea, brother, I've been supporting vouchers since I heard of them. I think you're overly optimistic that there are "lawmakers" on our side, though. Even those from the ostensibly free-market party, when they get into power, rarely support programs that would reduce their own sphere of influence. It's hard to get re-elected by saying "Look what I didn't do for you."
  - opendais 12y ago
    School choice only works if it is enough to cover all the external costs as well as all the tuition at a private school. No lawmaker and few citizens are willing to pay for that. ;)
    - glenra 12y ago
      The average private school costs quite a lot less than the average public school. You could spend about half as much per student and still get safer kids and happier parents. So what "external costs" are you thinking of? Going to a private school does involve travel, but so does going to your assigned public school. Depending on how the district lines are drawn and how centralized the district is, the trip might even be shorter.
      - opendais 12y ago
        Source? When my ex girlfriend was shopping around for a private school the private schools in the area were both: A) More expensive (by about $3-5k/year) than what the local district spends. B) Were generally further and didn't provide a bus to pick the kids/drop them off at that distance.
        12y ago

roc 12y ago

> "I think the courts are a better solution for that problem." So who sues? The students who are under-served by a public education system that doesn't teach evolution? Let's suppose they find a jury of their peers that agrees, what does the court decision look like? A mandate for the hiring or retention of at least one teacher who will teach evolution? (Likely with redundancies. People retire, change jobs, get sick, etc.) And to ensure the ruling is respected one would imagine the district would have to go to further lengths to prove cause, if they ever want to remove that teacher, right? So all we'll have done is move the tenure track to the court docket, but only for those students/concerns that can shoulder the legal costs to pursue their rights, inevitably providing poorer service to poorer students and those seeking protections for minority concerns (which are disproportionately less likely to win a court case).