6 ms·

Seemed like an awfully large amount of developers make less than 20 grand. I did some analysis that I think is a little more useful. Compensation & Job => fil

by jgmmo 12y ago

Seemed like an awfully large amount of developers make less than 20 grand. I did some analysis that I think is a little more useful. Compensation & Job => filtered by 'US only', 'not looking for a job', and 'provided a job'. https://www.statwing.com/demos/dev-survey-2#workspaces/18770 https://www.statwing.com/demos/dev-survey-2#workspaces/18770

matthewbauer 12y ago
Are those people all part-time developers? A $20,000 salary would equate to $9.62 per hour given a 40 hour work week. That doesn't seem to make since for a full-time developer.
- owenversteeg 12y ago
  Exactly - as a 13 year old I made $12 an hour. There's no way that 13-year-old me was making more than 55% of programmers.
  - harmegido 12y ago
    ....Do you live in India?
    - owenversteeg 12y ago
      No (I live, and lived at the time, in the US), but I'm assuming you asked because you were surprised I was working at 13. I was freelancing for some local businesses at the time, and I definitely didn't need the money.
      - aiiane 12y ago
        They might have been pointing out that 13-year-old you in the US may very well make more than an adult in India.
        JAnderton 12y ago
        You should factor in cost of living expenses before saying that. If the 13 year old in the US pays taxes and has to run a house on that money (even if it is a small rented apartment with expenses such as food and groceries for himself), the comparison with an adult doing the same in India /might/ be a bit more comparable.
nobodysfool 12y ago
Change that filter to 'India' and you can see <20,000 across the board.
- JAnderton 12y ago
  Alas, that page doesn't have the ability to bias cost of living expenses without which any regional salary comparison becomes tougher to compare.
danielweber 12y ago
Is there a way to make filters universal, instead of per chart? Observation: There is exactly 1 front-end web developer in my state. He gets paid more than me. I think I could build up a pretty decent profile of him from this. And maybe a bug: When I try to add another condition to your filters, the UI gives me two widgets to populate instead of 1. Weird. Another bug: If I sort salary, it sorts by string, not by numerical values.
- glaugh 12y ago
  . Yup, you can make filters universal with the "Enable Filters" button in the upper left (only applies to future analyses, not retrospectively). . The data is actually freely available for download via Stack Overflow, who ran the survey[1]. As per your comment, I'd hope that everyone who took the survey was informed that results would be available for download, but I can't tell for sure because the survey link is dead. . (Just emailed you for a screenshot, I can't replicate) . The last one isn't a bug per se. The UI around separately and intuitively exposing the ability to (1) sort by count, (2) sort by alpha, and (3) sort arbitrarily is a bit tricky. That said, point taken that the expected behavior on clicking was that it would sort in the user-determined arbitrary order (arbitrary since Statwing isn't yet smart enough to understand ranges, so those ranges were user-set into order). Thanks a bunch, really appreciate the feedback. [1] http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/2013-stack-overflow-user-survey-results/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/2013-stack-overflow-us... , http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/01/2012-stack-overflow-user-survey-results/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/01/2012-stack-overflow-us... (2011 isn't actually available for download, you have to email them)
slg 12y ago
I wouldn't let the default percentages mislead you. Just under 1% of US developers or 7 respondents (EDIT: using the filters you defined) are making under $20k. That is likely well within any margin of error. We also don't know any of the details surrounding the responses. The numbers could be caused just as easily by working on an early stage startup, working part time, or even user input error as it could be actually making under $20k.
- alttag 12y ago
  Doctoral students, interns, part-time employees, entrepreneurs, hobbyists (employed in other job), ... There are many reasons for a salary that low.
mamcx 12y ago
Well, the mytho that a developer get a lot of money only fly in USA, maybe?. Outside it? Well, at least in latin america US 5000/Year is normal. A lot of good developers I know are clearly below the hour rate one in USA get. We do it because we love to programming, but here is well know that is very hard to be "rich" as a developer. In fact, that is why I quit my job then do my own projects, consulting and freelance: I still not get a lot of money -however, I charge more than a lot of my peers (us 30-40/h), but certainly can work with things I like more.
- pvarangot 12y ago
  I'm from Argentina, and used to work (a long time ago though) with developers from Venezuela an Brazil. Not even an entry level developer makes U$d5000 a year, unless he is not working full time and even that would be stretching it. Entry level jobs in shitty places get you arround u$d7500/8000 a year. First job in a big company after you graduate gets you arround u$d11000/year, and with 2 or 3 years of experience you can get u$d15000/year easily if you are worth the investment. Upper tier jobs (manager, project leader or research for a big corporation, working remotely for someone in the US/Europe, consulting) start in u$d20000/year and can easily get to u$d30000/year. That is using Argentina's and Venezuela's black market exchange rate, or Brazil's official one. In Argentina even a PhD candidate gets more than u$d5000 a year from his publicly funded University. No idea about Brazil/Venezuela on this.
  - conanbatt 12y ago
    Im not disputing your numbers with confidence, but some look a bit too high. Which company pays 11000+ pesos a month for someone without work experience? The big guys, like Globant or IBM surely dont. Making 15000 pesos a month is far from average for a programmer in buenos aires even with a few years of xp.
    - pedrosorio 12y ago
      The parent comment talks about 11000 dollars per year. According to google that translates to less than 7500 Argentine pesos per month: https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos
JimmyM 12y ago
Bear in mind that someone will always take jobs that are lower-paid, they might just not be as visible, as they're not going to be appearing on company blogs or writing about their work as much. I knew two talented developers, one front-end one back-end web development, who were both on £13,000 a year. They are now on more, but it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that there are more like them.
Shivetya 12y ago
to be honest StackExchange has very little to offer me or colleagues working on minis/mainframes. The few attempts to contribute to questions that looked platform independent to me didn't leave me with a good feeling
chrisBob 12y ago
The most interesting thing I saw on this was that based on HN I expected to see "Full Stack" developers way off the top of the charts, but it was comparable to most other jobs, and maybe paid a little less than enterprise or mobile developers.

by jgmmo 12y ago

matthewbauer 12y ago

Are those people all part-time developers? A $20,000 salary would equate to $9.62 per hour given a 40 hour work week. That doesn't seem to make since for a full-time developer.

owenversteeg 12y ago
Exactly - as a 13 year old I made $12 an hour. There's no way that 13-year-old me was making more than 55% of programmers.
- harmegido 12y ago
  ....Do you live in India?
  - owenversteeg 12y ago
    No (I live, and lived at the time, in the US), but I'm assuming you asked because you were surprised I was working at 13. I was freelancing for some local businesses at the time, and I definitely didn't need the money.
    - aiiane 12y ago
      They might have been pointing out that 13-year-old you in the US may very well make more than an adult in India.
      - JAnderton 12y ago
        You should factor in cost of living expenses before saying that. If the 13 year old in the US pays taxes and has to run a house on that money (even if it is a small rented apartment with expenses such as food and groceries for himself), the comparison with an adult doing the same in India /might/ be a bit more comparable.

nobodysfool 12y ago

Change that filter to 'India' and you can see <20,000 across the board.

JAnderton 12y ago
Alas, that page doesn't have the ability to bias cost of living expenses without which any regional salary comparison becomes tougher to compare.

danielweber 12y ago

Is there a way to make filters universal, instead of per chart? Observation: There is exactly 1 front-end web developer in my state. He gets paid more than me. I think I could build up a pretty decent profile of him from this. And maybe a bug: When I try to add another condition to your filters, the UI gives me two widgets to populate instead of 1. Weird. Another bug: If I sort salary, it sorts by string, not by numerical values.

glaugh 12y ago
. Yup, you can make filters universal with the "Enable Filters" button in the upper left (only applies to future analyses, not retrospectively). . The data is actually freely available for download via Stack Overflow, who ran the survey[1]. As per your comment, I'd hope that everyone who took the survey was informed that results would be available for download, but I can't tell for sure because the survey link is dead. . (Just emailed you for a screenshot, I can't replicate) . The last one isn't a bug per se. The UI around separately and intuitively exposing the ability to (1) sort by count, (2) sort by alpha, and (3) sort arbitrarily is a bit tricky. That said, point taken that the expected behavior on clicking was that it would sort in the user-determined arbitrary order (arbitrary since Statwing isn't yet smart enough to understand ranges, so those ranges were user-set into order). Thanks a bunch, really appreciate the feedback. [1] http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/2013-stack-overflow-user-survey-results/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/02/2013-stack-overflow-us... , http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/01/2012-stack-overflow-user-survey-results/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/01/2012-stack-overflow-us... (2011 isn't actually available for download, you have to email them)

slg 12y ago

I wouldn't let the default percentages mislead you. Just under 1% of US developers or 7 respondents (EDIT: using the filters you defined) are making under $20k. That is likely well within any margin of error. We also don't know any of the details surrounding the responses. The numbers could be caused just as easily by working on an early stage startup, working part time, or even user input error as it could be actually making under $20k.

alttag 12y ago
Doctoral students, interns, part-time employees, entrepreneurs, hobbyists (employed in other job), ... There are many reasons for a salary that low.

mamcx 12y ago

Well, the mytho that a developer get a lot of money only fly in USA, maybe?. Outside it? Well, at least in latin america US 5000/Year is normal. A lot of good developers I know are clearly below the hour rate one in USA get. We do it because we love to programming, but here is well know that is very hard to be "rich" as a developer. In fact, that is why I quit my job then do my own projects, consulting and freelance: I still not get a lot of money -however, I charge more than a lot of my peers (us 30-40/h), but certainly can work with things I like more.

pvarangot 12y ago
I'm from Argentina, and used to work (a long time ago though) with developers from Venezuela an Brazil. Not even an entry level developer makes U$d5000 a year, unless he is not working full time and even that would be stretching it. Entry level jobs in shitty places get you arround u$d7500/8000 a year. First job in a big company after you graduate gets you arround u$d11000/year, and with 2 or 3 years of experience you can get u$d15000/year easily if you are worth the investment. Upper tier jobs (manager, project leader or research for a big corporation, working remotely for someone in the US/Europe, consulting) start in u$d20000/year and can easily get to u$d30000/year. That is using Argentina's and Venezuela's black market exchange rate, or Brazil's official one. In Argentina even a PhD candidate gets more than u$d5000 a year from his publicly funded University. No idea about Brazil/Venezuela on this.
- conanbatt 12y ago
  Im not disputing your numbers with confidence, but some look a bit too high. Which company pays 11000+ pesos a month for someone without work experience? The big guys, like Globant or IBM surely dont. Making 15000 pesos a month is far from average for a programmer in buenos aires even with a few years of xp.
  - pedrosorio 12y ago
    The parent comment talks about 11000 dollars per year. According to google that translates to less than 7500 Argentine pesos per month: https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos https://www.google.com/#q=11000%2F12+usd+in+argentine+pesos

JimmyM 12y ago

Bear in mind that someone will always take jobs that are lower-paid, they might just not be as visible, as they're not going to be appearing on company blogs or writing about their work as much. I knew two talented developers, one front-end one back-end web development, who were both on £13,000 a year. They are now on more, but it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that there are more like them.

Shivetya 12y ago

to be honest StackExchange has very little to offer me or colleagues working on minis/mainframes. The few attempts to contribute to questions that looked platform independent to me didn't leave me with a good feeling

chrisBob 12y ago

The most interesting thing I saw on this was that based on HN I expected to see "Full Stack" developers way off the top of the charts, but it was comparable to most other jobs, and maybe paid a little less than enterprise or mobile developers.