4 ms·

You seem to be coming at this from a traditional aviation viewpoint (which is valid). I'm coming at it from a modeling viewpoint. And I think that's where a lar

by mbreese 12y ago

You seem to be coming at this from a traditional aviation viewpoint (which is valid). I'm coming at it from a modeling viewpoint. And I think that's where a large part of the disconnect comes into play. From the traditional point of view, you'd like to bring these drones into the normal aviation regulatory framework. From the model point of view, large regulations are overkill and are severely limiting the development of this industry. I think that there are a couple of obvious rules that could be applied to speed things along: 1) limit location and altitude of flying, 2) require hands-on control (or take over), 3) require line of sight, 4) enforce some reasonable weight restrictions (for cameras). If you could meet those four things, then I don't see why you'd need to have a commercial restriction. You might have other issues to deal with for insurance, but I don't see why the FAA should care about commercial/non-commercial with such small craft. Now, when you get into autonomous flight and real payloads, then that's a whole other ballgame, where I think the FAA will have some real work to do. In particular though, I'd hate to see them limit the hobbyist segment too much. I think it would be a lot of fun to build a small, autonomous drone that could fly using GPS waypoints with a camera. I just don't want to have to go through 2 years of certification to be able to fly it!

lsh123 12y ago
You are missing important part: find a way to punish violators of these (and other) rules. This is critical for safety.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Typically, if you violate FARs, you'll lose a huge pilot's license investment (private, ifr, commercial can total in the tens of thousands of dollars). It doesn't hurt to lose a $300-$1000 quadrotor pilot license.
  - lsh123 12y ago
    Correct. The question is - how to identify the drone pilot? With planes you have N-number, transponders, FBOs, etc.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Require user registration by serial number on the drone possible? Or perhaps require commercial drones use ADS-B?
      - lsh123 12y ago
        It's not clear how one can get the serial number from the drone. ADS-B might be an option not only for tracking violators but also to solve "see-and-avoid" problem too.
      - LyndsySimon 12y ago
        Registering individual airframes doesn't make much sense - it's not unusual for a single quadcopter to go through many design iterations over the course of a few months. It might start out as a 10" wide quadcopter, until the first major crash. Instead of ordering a new arm, it can be reconfigured as a tricopter with the addition of a servo. After a while, the tricopter might become a V-Tail if the user likes the flight characteristics. Then FPV kit might get added, or a GPS reciever. Now it's flying semi-autonomously and the user wants better quality video, so it's transplanted onto a 18" frame, fitted with a gimbal and nicer camera. At what point does the multicopter need to change registration numbers? A simple "You must have your name and contact info on it" rule would be more than sufficient - and in fact is already the case for 90% of the aircraft out there. I even have my contact info taped to the body of my little 4" Hubsan quadcopter; I'll probably never need it, but why throw away expensive hardware if you don't have to?
      - LyndsySimon 12y ago
        Registering individual airframes doesn't make much sense - it's not unusual for a single quadcopter to go through many design iterations over the course of a few months. It might start out as a 10" wide quadcopter, until the first major crash. Instead of ordering a new arm, it can be reconfigured as a tricopter with the addition of a servo. After a while, the tricopter might become a V-Tail if the user likes the flight characteristics. Then FPV kit might get added, or a GPS reciever. Now it's flying semi-autonomously and the user wants better quality video, so it's transplanted onto a 18" frame, fitted with a gimbal and nicer camera. At what point does the multicopter need to change registration numbers? A simple "You must have your name and contact info on it" rule would be more than sufficient - and in fact is already the case for 90% of the aircraft out there. I even have my contact info taped to the body of my little 4" Hubsan quadcopter; I'll probably never need it, but why throw away expensive hardware if you don't have to?
frisco 12y ago
> limit location and altitude of flying Sure - this might be a good example here because any rules the FAA will come out with in this regard will probably require you to be able to read a sectional chart unless you're really in the middle of nowhere. The DJI drones are all easily capable of altitudes that could interfere with VFR traffic and in places like the Bay Area the ceilings people are flying under are often quite low to avoid, for example, the SFO airspace. Drones are way more maneuverable than airplanes, so the realistic burden will be on the drone operators to avoid rather than the other way around. Definitely shouldn't be a two-years-of-flight-school thing, but there probably is a written test at the DMV somewhere in here.

by mbreese 12y ago

lsh123 12y ago

You are missing important part: find a way to punish violators of these (and other) rules. This is critical for safety.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
Typically, if you violate FARs, you'll lose a huge pilot's license investment (private, ifr, commercial can total in the tens of thousands of dollars). It doesn't hurt to lose a $300-$1000 quadrotor pilot license.
- lsh123 12y ago
  Correct. The question is - how to identify the drone pilot? With planes you have N-number, transponders, FBOs, etc.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Require user registration by serial number on the drone possible? Or perhaps require commercial drones use ADS-B?
    - lsh123 12y ago
      It's not clear how one can get the serial number from the drone. ADS-B might be an option not only for tracking violators but also to solve "see-and-avoid" problem too.
    - LyndsySimon 12y ago
      Registering individual airframes doesn't make much sense - it's not unusual for a single quadcopter to go through many design iterations over the course of a few months. It might start out as a 10" wide quadcopter, until the first major crash. Instead of ordering a new arm, it can be reconfigured as a tricopter with the addition of a servo. After a while, the tricopter might become a V-Tail if the user likes the flight characteristics. Then FPV kit might get added, or a GPS reciever. Now it's flying semi-autonomously and the user wants better quality video, so it's transplanted onto a 18" frame, fitted with a gimbal and nicer camera. At what point does the multicopter need to change registration numbers? A simple "You must have your name and contact info on it" rule would be more than sufficient - and in fact is already the case for 90% of the aircraft out there. I even have my contact info taped to the body of my little 4" Hubsan quadcopter; I'll probably never need it, but why throw away expensive hardware if you don't have to?
    - LyndsySimon 12y ago
      Registering individual airframes doesn't make much sense - it's not unusual for a single quadcopter to go through many design iterations over the course of a few months. It might start out as a 10" wide quadcopter, until the first major crash. Instead of ordering a new arm, it can be reconfigured as a tricopter with the addition of a servo. After a while, the tricopter might become a V-Tail if the user likes the flight characteristics. Then FPV kit might get added, or a GPS reciever. Now it's flying semi-autonomously and the user wants better quality video, so it's transplanted onto a 18" frame, fitted with a gimbal and nicer camera. At what point does the multicopter need to change registration numbers? A simple "You must have your name and contact info on it" rule would be more than sufficient - and in fact is already the case for 90% of the aircraft out there. I even have my contact info taped to the body of my little 4" Hubsan quadcopter; I'll probably never need it, but why throw away expensive hardware if you don't have to?

frisco 12y ago

> limit location and altitude of flying Sure - this might be a good example here because any rules the FAA will come out with in this regard will probably require you to be able to read a sectional chart unless you're really in the middle of nowhere. The DJI drones are all easily capable of altitudes that could interfere with VFR traffic and in places like the Bay Area the ceilings people are flying under are often quite low to avoid, for example, the SFO airspace. Drones are way more maneuverable than airplanes, so the realistic burden will be on the drone operators to avoid rather than the other way around. Definitely shouldn't be a two-years-of-flight-school thing, but there probably is a written test at the DMV somewhere in here.