3 ms·
Thanks for a detailed reply. I read it a few times, and still have a few follow-up comments/questions: A. [1] Defines inventions as '(a) The term "invention"
by alok-g 12y ago
Thanks for a detailed reply. I read it a few times, and still have a few follow-up comments/questions:
A.
[1] Defines inventions as '(a) The term "invention" means invention or discovery.', which means the normal English meaning applies. That clearly means for example that exceptions like California section 2870 [2] do not help employees for software side-projects (since software is subject to copyrights, not necessarily inventions unless some invention is involved in the developed software).
This clearly means an employment agreement could make all software belong to the employer if developed while being employed, even if the clauses applicable to inventions in [2] like "developed in employee's own time" are satisfied.
And that means that people with software side-projects while being employed elsewhere most likely in a software company may be having an issue since majority sign employment contracts without reading (and are surprised when I tell them about these things). I have commonly seen employment contracts stating "any invention, whether patentable or not, ... works of authorship, whether copyrightable or not, ... developed during the course of the employment ... are a property of the employer ... with the exceptions noted California code 2870 ..." (which as I now know, does not cover software by itself).
Please let me know if my understanding above is not correct. :-)
B.
Hardware copyrights: Hardware, as you would know, has extensive design documents and blueprints that include circuit schematics, layouts, digital logic specified in hardware description languages (just like software), all of which involve creative expression. These then result in the actual hardware embodying these design blueprints that I guess would be a "tangible medium of expression" [3]. Integrated circuit layouts for example carry a nearly verbatim copy of the layout of the design, just like a printout of the same layout would.
I now understand that "functional" aspects would not be copyrightable. I am surprised to see "system" listed in [3] though, which I thought could be considered a tangible medium of expression. From a scientific standpoint, a CD-ROM for example can readily be described as a "system". So would be a piece of paper. As I am reading [3], a CD-ROM carrying a software would not be subject to copyrights if the CD-ROM could be considered to be a system. I am wondering now if there is a formal definition of that is a "system". :-)
I understand the remarks you made about trademarks fully. Thanks for noting the specific details there too!
C.
What does "compete" with the employer mean? :-) If someone is developing an iPad app (software) while working for a company that makes enterprise software and does not have any current or anticipated line of business making mobile apps, would that be competing? I am guessing 'yes'. Now what happens if a company is making CR-ROMs for a software they sell. Would someone making music CDs and selling those be in competition? I have been guessing that if the employee's business is within the same trademark code of the employer's current or anticipated line of business, that could be considered competing. If and only if so, all computer/electronics related stuff seems to fall in the same trademark code [4], which means clear trouble for all the people having technology side-projects.
[1] http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/100 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/100
[2] http://law.onecle.com/california/labor/2870.html http://law.onecle.com/california/labor/2870.html
[3] http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/102 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/102
[4] http://www.tmweb.com/trademark_classes.asp#9 http://www.tmweb.com/trademark_classes.asp#9
- dctoedt 12y agoAlok -- 1. Many of the things you're asking would likely be very sensitive to the specific facts of the situation, and probably at least somewhat unpredictable in outcome. That includes, for example: + the scope of copyright protection (see my summary of Oracle v. Google below); + the meaning of "compete" with an employer. Consider the Oracle v. Google case, for example: A highly-regarded federal trial judge in the Bay Area held that Google had not infringed any protectable copyright interest in the Java API. But then a federal appellate court in Washington DC ruled that the trial judge had used the wrong analytical approach to determine what was protectable and what wasn't [1]. 2. If you're asking these questions because of your specific situation, be very careful what you disclose publicly, because you might be jeopardizing your attorney-client privilege by doing so. (Also, for clarity, I'm not acting as your lawyer here, and you shouldn't rely on what I say on HN as legal advice about your specific situation.) 3. I haven't researched the California employee-invention statute recently, and don't remember offhand how courts have interpreted the term "invention" as used there. A quick Google search revealed a published law-student paper, which I haven't read but it looks as though it might be useful [2]. 4. As to IC layouts, take a look at the Semiconductor Chip Protection Act [3], which protects mask works. NOTES: [1] Oracle v. Google: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12333423636908326934 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1233342363690832... [2] Employee inventions: See Parker A. Howell, Whose Invention is it Anyway? Employee Invention-Assignment Agreements and Their Limits, Cite as: 8 WASH. J.L. TECH. & ARTS 79 (2012), http://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace-law/bitstream/handle/1773.1/1169/8wjlta79.pdf?sequence=4 http://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace-law/bitstream/handl... [3] SCPA: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ100.pdf http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ100.pdf
- alok-g 12y agoThanks again for detailed answers. I'll be reading reference 2 you cited in more detail. I indeed do not see this discussion as a substitute for legal advice, and these questions have not been specifically my case. However, many entrepreneurs I have met in person or through HN do have such issues without realizing, possibly including some who have posted here itself [1] about the side businesses they created while being employed. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7867603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7867603