3 ms·

I'm as sick of politician hatred by the peanut gallery. Think back 250 years in this country's history, when blacks were slaves, non-landowners couldn't vote, a

by akd 17y ago

I'm as sick of politician hatred by the peanut gallery. Think back 250 years in this country's history, when blacks were slaves, non-landowners couldn't vote, and women weren't sent to school. The difference between that world and today's world is due to the efforts of politicians and activists. Do you think that Johnson's Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were not "real" accomplishments?

spking 17y ago
Interesting that you went straight for the "peanut gallery" categorization because my opinion happens to differ from yours. I paid just over $38,000 in Federal, state and local taxes last year. I simply don't like people (like Ted Kennedy) who have never worked an honest job in their entire lives and have contributed to bankrupting this country. The real heroes are not politicians who run up a massive credit card bill in our collective names. The true heroes are entrepreneurs who innovate, produce and create value. Politicians produce nothing. They simply take from the productive sectors of society and create huge distortions in the marketplace. Obviously, there have been some necessary and admirable laws passed in the brief history of this country, but they are the exception and not the rule.
- akd 17y ago
  Useless companies which simply take from the productive sectors of the economy are also the rule, with the few amazing companies being the exception. You can't have a new Google or Voting Rights Act every week.
  - spking 17y ago
    The difference here is that any exchange with a useless company is on a voluntary basis, whereas any exchange with the government is completely compulsory. If I don't give Useless Company X my money, they go out of business for not adding enough value. If I don't give my money to the government, they garnish my wages, put liens on my house and put me in prison, and continue to run inefficiently whilst piling up massive debt in my name. See the difference?
    - idlewords 17y ago
      I think this idea that we can punish ineffectiveness in the private sector is pleasant to think about, but doesn't reflect our actual experience. Think of all the ineffective or downright hateful businesses you give your money to because there is no practical alternative: cable and internet providers, health insurers, banks, credit cards, ticketmaster, airlines, big box stores, domain registrars...
      - lionhearted 17y ago
        I find it strange that this comment is getting upvoted. For instance, you can fly to literally the other side of the world in one day for less than two week's pay at even a poorly paying job. Not that long ago, it took a few days to go from Boston to New York on horseback. Credit cards facilitated online shopping and the internet as we know it. As someone whose taken credit cards, I hate giving up the 2.x%, but it's well worth it. Many businesses wouldn't be possible without credit cards. They're massively convenient. And AMEX totally washes the consumer's hands of fraud and damaged goods. Business does well. Even the above cross-section of "downright hateful companies" are still pretty good businesses. And the scummiest ones are scummy because they're in bed with government. Cable/internet local monopolies, health insurers with the tax code, and banks with the... well, that's a long discussion and you've probably heard some of it. Government branches can't go out of business. When they do poorly, they always say it's because they don't have enough money, and they get more. Business has a natural check on it - people have to like it enough to use it. You could skip airlines and take a boat or train or horse, you could use only cash and keep it in your mattress, you could use other alternatives. You don't, because those companies aren't perfect, but they do a pretty good job. I wish I could just "not use" the IRS, I wish I could just "not use" TSA, I wish I could just "pass" on going to the DMV and giving them money for a sticker or laminated piece of plastic. No private sector company that isn't in bed with the government or run by powerful violent criminals is as nasty as the DMV, IRS, or TSA to its customers. And they don't go out of business.
        rms 17y ago
        I have experienced shockingly mean service in the quasi-private sector. Like idlewords said, it was something where I didn't have a choice. At the University of Pittsburgh, Sodexho is the exclusive provider of on-campus food. The food and service have since gotten better, but my freshman year, Sodexho had a policy of hiring many ex-convicts for their food service positions. I ate at the sub place on campus a lot because it was close to my dorm and decent enough. The full-time workers there were two men 70+ in age, though maybe the hard living had aged them beyond their years. They had faded ink tattoos visible on their arms and had clearly recently been released from prison after near-lifetime sentences. I cannot express how much these men hated their jobs. They hated their customers. Every time I ate there and made the mistake of looking them in the eye, I could tell that they wished death upon me and everyone that ever ate a sub made by their hands. Since then, I have eaten in the private sector, and while every worker is not happy, they are usually at worst indifferent. Never has an employee wished death upon me with malice and hatred like those two sub shop workers.
splat 17y ago
Yes, let's think back to these ills you mentioned.... Who put them in place? Oh yes, it was politicians. I'm glad they eventually corrected their mistakes, but I won't deify them simply because they did so.

by akd 17y ago

spking 17y ago

Interesting that you went straight for the "peanut gallery" categorization because my opinion happens to differ from yours. I paid just over $38,000 in Federal, state and local taxes last year. I simply don't like people (like Ted Kennedy) who have never worked an honest job in their entire lives and have contributed to bankrupting this country. The real heroes are not politicians who run up a massive credit card bill in our collective names. The true heroes are entrepreneurs who innovate, produce and create value. Politicians produce nothing. They simply take from the productive sectors of society and create huge distortions in the marketplace. Obviously, there have been some necessary and admirable laws passed in the brief history of this country, but they are the exception and not the rule.

akd 17y ago
Useless companies which simply take from the productive sectors of the economy are also the rule, with the few amazing companies being the exception. You can't have a new Google or Voting Rights Act every week.
- spking 17y ago
  The difference here is that any exchange with a useless company is on a voluntary basis, whereas any exchange with the government is completely compulsory. If I don't give Useless Company X my money, they go out of business for not adding enough value. If I don't give my money to the government, they garnish my wages, put liens on my house and put me in prison, and continue to run inefficiently whilst piling up massive debt in my name. See the difference?
  - idlewords 17y ago
    I think this idea that we can punish ineffectiveness in the private sector is pleasant to think about, but doesn't reflect our actual experience. Think of all the ineffective or downright hateful businesses you give your money to because there is no practical alternative: cable and internet providers, health insurers, banks, credit cards, ticketmaster, airlines, big box stores, domain registrars...
    - lionhearted 17y ago
      I find it strange that this comment is getting upvoted. For instance, you can fly to literally the other side of the world in one day for less than two week's pay at even a poorly paying job. Not that long ago, it took a few days to go from Boston to New York on horseback. Credit cards facilitated online shopping and the internet as we know it. As someone whose taken credit cards, I hate giving up the 2.x%, but it's well worth it. Many businesses wouldn't be possible without credit cards. They're massively convenient. And AMEX totally washes the consumer's hands of fraud and damaged goods. Business does well. Even the above cross-section of "downright hateful companies" are still pretty good businesses. And the scummiest ones are scummy because they're in bed with government. Cable/internet local monopolies, health insurers with the tax code, and banks with the... well, that's a long discussion and you've probably heard some of it. Government branches can't go out of business. When they do poorly, they always say it's because they don't have enough money, and they get more. Business has a natural check on it - people have to like it enough to use it. You could skip airlines and take a boat or train or horse, you could use only cash and keep it in your mattress, you could use other alternatives. You don't, because those companies aren't perfect, but they do a pretty good job. I wish I could just "not use" the IRS, I wish I could just "not use" TSA, I wish I could just "pass" on going to the DMV and giving them money for a sticker or laminated piece of plastic. No private sector company that isn't in bed with the government or run by powerful violent criminals is as nasty as the DMV, IRS, or TSA to its customers. And they don't go out of business.
      - rms 17y ago
        I have experienced shockingly mean service in the quasi-private sector. Like idlewords said, it was something where I didn't have a choice. At the University of Pittsburgh, Sodexho is the exclusive provider of on-campus food. The food and service have since gotten better, but my freshman year, Sodexho had a policy of hiring many ex-convicts for their food service positions. I ate at the sub place on campus a lot because it was close to my dorm and decent enough. The full-time workers there were two men 70+ in age, though maybe the hard living had aged them beyond their years. They had faded ink tattoos visible on their arms and had clearly recently been released from prison after near-lifetime sentences. I cannot express how much these men hated their jobs. They hated their customers. Every time I ate there and made the mistake of looking them in the eye, I could tell that they wished death upon me and everyone that ever ate a sub made by their hands. Since then, I have eaten in the private sector, and while every worker is not happy, they are usually at worst indifferent. Never has an employee wished death upon me with malice and hatred like those two sub shop workers.

splat 17y ago

Yes, let's think back to these ills you mentioned.... Who put them in place? Oh yes, it was politicians. I'm glad they eventually corrected their mistakes, but I won't deify them simply because they did so.