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> Instead, it is an operational definition of "intelligence" Exactly. It's a straightforward formulation of what a strong AI would be capable of. It makes no s

by TillE 12y ago

> Instead, it is an operational definition of "intelligence" Exactly. It's a straightforward formulation of what a strong AI would be capable of. It makes no sense to have a restricted Turing test that can be passed by a useless chatbot. It means absolutely nothing.

lukeschlather 12y ago
Not at all. If you've been following this, the age of the test has been getting older and older for the past 15 or so years. They're not resting on their laurels at 13-year-old, next year maybe they'll make 14, and the year after that... It's a way of having a better metric than pass/fail. This is the real problem with AI. Everyone expects that AI research should go: you put a bunch of programmers in a room, and they work for a few years and build an AI. The best intelligence production we have is human child-rearing. This process has always taken 15-20 years, and is backed by millennia of research. Assume you have a digital computer capable of human-like thought. Without an example of a computer capable of learning faster, it stands to reason that raising the computer into an AI capable of conversation should take 15-20 years. Of course, one thinks there would be a way to do it faster, but on the first go?
andreasvc 12y ago
I assume you mean weak AI. And I don't see how you can dismiss the meaning of passing this test so easily. Although it's a trivial example, I can definitely see such chatbots being applied for spamming purposes, which by definition exploits hapless victims.
- mcguire 12y ago
  No, I think that's a correct use of strong AI.[1] "Strong AI" is work towards general-purpose intelligence, at least as sentient, conscious, intelligent, or whatever term you prefer to use as you are. "Weak AI" is work towards usefully solving problems that would previously have been thought to require general intelligence, such as chess programs or self-driving cars. [1] Although usage may be changing. Pity.
  - andreasvc 12y ago
    Weak AI is when a computer can (appear to) act intelligently, strong AI is when a computer can actually think (Russell & Norvig). Therefore, passing a Turing test would be a textbook example of weak AI, because you only need to simulate intelligence well enough to fool the judge.
    - mcguire 12y ago
      Like I said, usage is changing. I studied AI shortly after the "AI Winter", which is where I got my definition. Strong AI---working towards a general intelligence---was strongly out of favor, especially with funding agencies. It still remains so (but see Watson). But solving limited problems heuristically (or statistically) that are not otherwise algorithmically tractable (a loose translation of "would appear to require general intelligence") has always been a fertile field. Turing's argument, which is a philosophical argument, is not meaningful if you put any limits on it---time, topic, behavior (really, Parry is better than the Doctor), which is why it is better thought of as a thought experiment. If you have limits such that it can be gamed, then yes, it is fair to say "you only need to simulate intelligence well enough to fool the judge." Which makes it uninteresting. But the question is, if you can "simulate intelligence" well enough under any conceivable circumstance (and yes, all actual human beans will fail here), how can you say that it cannot "actually think"?

by TillE 12y ago

lukeschlather 12y ago

Not at all. If you've been following this, the age of the test has been getting older and older for the past 15 or so years. They're not resting on their laurels at 13-year-old, next year maybe they'll make 14, and the year after that... It's a way of having a better metric than pass/fail. This is the real problem with AI. Everyone expects that AI research should go: you put a bunch of programmers in a room, and they work for a few years and build an AI. The best intelligence production we have is human child-rearing. This process has always taken 15-20 years, and is backed by millennia of research. Assume you have a digital computer capable of human-like thought. Without an example of a computer capable of learning faster, it stands to reason that raising the computer into an AI capable of conversation should take 15-20 years. Of course, one thinks there would be a way to do it faster, but on the first go?

andreasvc 12y ago

I assume you mean weak AI. And I don't see how you can dismiss the meaning of passing this test so easily. Although it's a trivial example, I can definitely see such chatbots being applied for spamming purposes, which by definition exploits hapless victims.

mcguire 12y ago
No, I think that's a correct use of strong AI.[1] "Strong AI" is work towards general-purpose intelligence, at least as sentient, conscious, intelligent, or whatever term you prefer to use as you are. "Weak AI" is work towards usefully solving problems that would previously have been thought to require general intelligence, such as chess programs or self-driving cars. [1] Although usage may be changing. Pity.
- andreasvc 12y ago
  Weak AI is when a computer can (appear to) act intelligently, strong AI is when a computer can actually think (Russell & Norvig). Therefore, passing a Turing test would be a textbook example of weak AI, because you only need to simulate intelligence well enough to fool the judge.
  - mcguire 12y ago
    Like I said, usage is changing. I studied AI shortly after the "AI Winter", which is where I got my definition. Strong AI---working towards a general intelligence---was strongly out of favor, especially with funding agencies. It still remains so (but see Watson). But solving limited problems heuristically (or statistically) that are not otherwise algorithmically tractable (a loose translation of "would appear to require general intelligence") has always been a fertile field. Turing's argument, which is a philosophical argument, is not meaningful if you put any limits on it---time, topic, behavior (really, Parry is better than the Doctor), which is why it is better thought of as a thought experiment. If you have limits such that it can be gamed, then yes, it is fair to say "you only need to simulate intelligence well enough to fool the judge." Which makes it uninteresting. But the question is, if you can "simulate intelligence" well enough under any conceivable circumstance (and yes, all actual human beans will fail here), how can you say that it cannot "actually think"?