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Good that someone is exposing the atrocities on labors working in such factories, but why not then fight iPhones and all those phones manufactured in China, as

Good that someone is exposing the atrocities on labors working in such factories, but why not then fight iPhones and all those phones manufactured in China, as well? Labors work in really really pathetic working conditions to make those shiny gadgets.

calibraxis 12y ago
Definitely a good point. At that point, when we start generalizing across industries, it becomes a fight against the dominant economic system. (Nowadays capitalism, like one would in the past fight Soviet communism, feudalism, slavery, etc... towards more sensible societies.) I believe those who don't are left with conspiracy theories: of bankers and captains-of-industry who connive to ruin a world otherwise populated by benevolent bosses and their happy subordinates.
colmvp 12y ago
Smartphones are significantly more limited than options for clothing.
codeulike 12y ago
why not then fight iPhones and all those phones manufactured in China Plenty of people do. Are you not aware of that? http://stopchildlabor.org/?cat=573 http://stopchildlabor.org/?cat=573 http://bloodinthemobile.org/ http://bloodinthemobile.org/ https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.fairphone.com/ http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/11/25/dispatches-smartphones-without-smart-due-diligence http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/11/25/dispatches-smartphones-wi... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/09/conflict_minerals_from_the_congo_is_your_cellphone_made_with_them.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudenc...
MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
That is an argument that has been made again and again. Foxconn is actually a very sought after employer, as the others are often much worse. Standards vary, unfortunately. But if you have read Das Kapital and its descriptions of the horrors of Manchester capitalism, you have to conclude that it was actually worse in Europe not so long ago. And like Europe, China will rise to better living conditions. It just takes a while. Of course, protesting against the worst outliers is still a worthwhile and noble cause!
dredmorbius 12y ago
Whataboutism / tu quoque fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism The matter at question here is garments and garment workers. So that's what's being discussed. If you want to discuss electronics manufacturing conditions and circumstances, you're more than welcome to post your own item on those topics (and they've been covered here before).
golergka 12y ago
You do realize that while these conditions are awful, they're much better the alternatives? It's idiotic to "fight" Foxconn factories when they see no lack of those willing to work in these conditions. If you really want to help, you should improve the whole economical situation in these countries, and you'll find that although that's not their goal, it's exactly what Foxconn, Nike and others accused of "worker abuse" are doing.
- naturalethic 12y ago
  How dare companies provide a low rung on the economic ladder and not force anyone to use it.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    Using the metaphor of a ladder is asserting the existence of an argument that you're not bothering to make. What if you called it a piece of dirt in the economic grave?
    - naturalethic 12y ago
      The ladder is usually, and in this instance, the things that working give you such as on the job training and building up a personal reputation as a dependable employee. It gives you exposure to company processes and gets your mind working on how to improve them here or at the next gig. Sitting on your ass because minimum wage cuts you off from opportunities and your only option is going on the dole gives you none of that.
josai 12y ago
Can someone explain to me how assembling iPhones at Foxconn is somehow worse than, say, working at a checkout, or flipping burgers at McDonalds? Except for how Foxconn pays more than 3 times the local minimum wage? In fact, Foxconn's salary of $700/month is beginning to sound close to minimum wage in america, and believe me, $700/m in china goes a lot further than it would in the USA.

calibraxis 12y ago

Definitely a good point. At that point, when we start generalizing across industries, it becomes a fight against the dominant economic system. (Nowadays capitalism, like one would in the past fight Soviet communism, feudalism, slavery, etc... towards more sensible societies.) I believe those who don't are left with conspiracy theories: of bankers and captains-of-industry who connive to ruin a world otherwise populated by benevolent bosses and their happy subordinates.

colmvp 12y ago

Smartphones are significantly more limited than options for clothing.

codeulike 12y ago

why not then fight iPhones and all those phones manufactured in China Plenty of people do. Are you not aware of that? http://stopchildlabor.org/?cat=573 http://stopchildlabor.org/?cat=573 http://bloodinthemobile.org/ http://bloodinthemobile.org/ https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.fairphone.com/ http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/11/25/dispatches-smartphones-without-smart-due-diligence http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/11/25/dispatches-smartphones-wi... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/09/conflict_minerals_from_the_congo_is_your_cellphone_made_with_them.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudenc...

MrBuddyCasino 12y ago

That is an argument that has been made again and again. Foxconn is actually a very sought after employer, as the others are often much worse. Standards vary, unfortunately. But if you have read Das Kapital and its descriptions of the horrors of Manchester capitalism, you have to conclude that it was actually worse in Europe not so long ago. And like Europe, China will rise to better living conditions. It just takes a while. Of course, protesting against the worst outliers is still a worthwhile and noble cause!

dredmorbius 12y ago

Whataboutism / tu quoque fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism The matter at question here is garments and garment workers. So that's what's being discussed. If you want to discuss electronics manufacturing conditions and circumstances, you're more than welcome to post your own item on those topics (and they've been covered here before).

golergka 12y ago

You do realize that while these conditions are awful, they're much better the alternatives? It's idiotic to "fight" Foxconn factories when they see no lack of those willing to work in these conditions. If you really want to help, you should improve the whole economical situation in these countries, and you'll find that although that's not their goal, it's exactly what Foxconn, Nike and others accused of "worker abuse" are doing.

naturalethic 12y ago
How dare companies provide a low rung on the economic ladder and not force anyone to use it.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  Using the metaphor of a ladder is asserting the existence of an argument that you're not bothering to make. What if you called it a piece of dirt in the economic grave?
  - naturalethic 12y ago
    The ladder is usually, and in this instance, the things that working give you such as on the job training and building up a personal reputation as a dependable employee. It gives you exposure to company processes and gets your mind working on how to improve them here or at the next gig. Sitting on your ass because minimum wage cuts you off from opportunities and your only option is going on the dole gives you none of that.

josai 12y ago

Can someone explain to me how assembling iPhones at Foxconn is somehow worse than, say, working at a checkout, or flipping burgers at McDonalds? Except for how Foxconn pays more than 3 times the local minimum wage? In fact, Foxconn's salary of $700/month is beginning to sound close to minimum wage in america, and believe me, $700/m in china goes a lot further than it would in the USA.