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I have to wonder how much the focus on the switch is papering over other problems. The fact that a non-essential mechanical component can cause accidents like t

I have to wonder how much the focus on the switch is papering over other problems. The fact that a non-essential mechanical component can cause accidents like this seems fragile. When the key pops out, the engine stalls, power steering goes out and the airbags do not inflate. Where is the "defense in depth"? A robust system should really require two things to go wrong. Is it that "key in ignition" is a critical part of the vehicle's state machine?

hga 12y ago
Pretty much, I think. Not being able to decisively turn off the engine has also killed people, remember the Toyota issue not long ago? We think that in general the drivers panicked and floored the accelerator thinking they were pressing the brakes, but the complexity/difference of turning off the engine with a button---as I recall it had to be held down for something more than a second---vs. turning a key all the way counterclockwise and ultimately pulling it out could have resolved the user errors short of fatal crashes. Ditto the theory that some or many of these were caused by the accelerator getting stuck on a floor mat. Or an embedded computer and/or components attached to it failing in a bad way. Compare to the big red buttons on some computers and hopefully in all big machine rooms: there are times, when lives are threatened, that you want an easy way to immediately turn everything off. Even if you add a molly-guard in front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_red_button#Molly-guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_red_button#Molly-guard
- deserted 12y ago
  If you're driving down the freeway, putting the gear selection lever to neutral would be a much better choice than killing the engine and taking out the key.
  - hga 12y ago
    If you're so panicked you're flooring the accelerator thinking it's the brake, you might not think of that, and since you've not actually depressed the brake pedal, it wouldn't shift anyway, would it? If you're truly standing on the brake, then it ought to work, but you might not think of it. I'll bet a lot of people don't usually think of any gears but park, normal forward and reverse.
    - deserted 12y ago
      On my car, you can always shift from Drive to Neutral just by pushing forward on the gear lever, without your foot on the brake, without pressing the button on the gear lever, etc.

hga 12y ago

Pretty much, I think. Not being able to decisively turn off the engine has also killed people, remember the Toyota issue not long ago? We think that in general the drivers panicked and floored the accelerator thinking they were pressing the brakes, but the complexity/difference of turning off the engine with a button---as I recall it had to be held down for something more than a second---vs. turning a key all the way counterclockwise and ultimately pulling it out could have resolved the user errors short of fatal crashes. Ditto the theory that some or many of these were caused by the accelerator getting stuck on a floor mat. Or an embedded computer and/or components attached to it failing in a bad way. Compare to the big red buttons on some computers and hopefully in all big machine rooms: there are times, when lives are threatened, that you want an easy way to immediately turn everything off. Even if you add a molly-guard in front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_red_button#Molly-guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_red_button#Molly-guard

deserted 12y ago
If you're driving down the freeway, putting the gear selection lever to neutral would be a much better choice than killing the engine and taking out the key.
- hga 12y ago
  If you're so panicked you're flooring the accelerator thinking it's the brake, you might not think of that, and since you've not actually depressed the brake pedal, it wouldn't shift anyway, would it? If you're truly standing on the brake, then it ought to work, but you might not think of it. I'll bet a lot of people don't usually think of any gears but park, normal forward and reverse.
  - deserted 12y ago
    On my car, you can always shift from Drive to Neutral just by pushing forward on the gear lever, without your foot on the brake, without pressing the button on the gear lever, etc.