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Readme, check. Docs, check. Screenshots, nope. Why would you not include that for a gui library?

by Hansi 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago
Stupid programmers with their writing code instead of making pictures.
- danudey 12y ago
  Is it unreasonable to expect some kind of demonstration of what the code will accomplish before having to actually write a project which uses it? If this code works and is tested on OS X, Windows, and Linux, then one would assume the author has at least one test implementation, so it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to screenshot it, especially given that cross-platform toolkits have never, in my experience, actually looked or felt native on OS X.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    People on HN have a very bad habit of assuming that any time something appears on HN, it's because the authors wanted to put on a show for HN. No.
    - shadowmint 12y ago
      Oh please, what kind of excuse is that? This library is clearly not written for the authors own personal benefit. Just look at the old readme; it's obviously written for other people to use and play with. Examples and screenshots are good; there's no reason for anyone to be defensive about not having them; the author can just add them. It's no big deal; it's helpful feedback.
      - andlabs 12y ago
        Partially true; I was driven to write this because I wasn't particularly satisfied with what already existed for various differing reasons. The current feature set and my own short-term plans are based around the GUI projects that I intend to write first (specifically a music authoring program). As for screenshots, I suppose I could upload a screenshot of the test program, but I'm not sure how much that would accomplish. I think a basic tutorial with screenshots at each step would probably be more useful, as it shows how the package works...
        Xorlev 12y ago
        It would be quite helpful. I went to the README hoping to see how platform-native it is, even the test program would have been helpful.
      - stcredzero 12y ago
        >> People on HN have a very bad habit of assuming that any time something appears on HN, it's because the authors wanted to put on a show for HN. No. > Oh please, what kind of excuse is that? Just demonstrated tptacek's point. The author could be at a point where he wants others to see, but isn't quite ready for places like HN yet. In that case, it's not an excuse. Attitudes like this encourage pathological perfectionism.
        shadowmint 12y ago
        It is an excuse. You don't need to polish something into a shiny gem of perfection before showing it to people; and you certainly don't need to get defensive about feedback (which in this case wasn't harsh at all); especially not for something out in the public that various people are already using. Iterative feedback and improvement can only happen if you get feedback. It's tempting to say that something isn't quite ready for others to see yet, it needs a bit more polish, and bit more internal beta testing, a bit more perfecting before you show it people. ...but I'd say that most cases, it's not the right attitude to encourage (although there are some very specific cases; like product launches where a botched launch has long term negative ramifications). Have a think about what you wrote there. You're endorsing self defensive attitude of perfectionism that you're criticizing.
        stcredzero 12y ago
        You're endorsing self defensive attitude of perfectionism that you're criticizing. No. I'm endorsing thinking a few steps ahead when criticizing. I think that should be the lower bar for feedback. Otherwise, it's too easy to engage in "feedback" as a means of self aggrandizement while humiliating others, which is as close as we can get to the Internet's official sport. (In particular, knee-jerk statements can be used to win over an uninformed crowd. They are the favorite ammunition of trolls.)
        shadowmint 12y ago
        Is it unreasonable to expect some kind of demonstration of what the code will accomplish before having to actually write a project which uses it? You think that perhaps danudey needed to stop for a moment and have a quiet think about that before posting it? Perhaps word it in a more friendly way somehow? Perhaps that it was a bit too harsh, and humiliated the original author? I totally get the basic point you're making, but it's just completely ridiculous to be making it in this specific case.
    - RyanMcGreal 12y ago
      I can't speak for anyone else but I assumed they put it on github because they want other people to be able to use it.
      - danielweber 12y ago
        It doesn't mean they're ready. Lots of stuff on GitHub is unfinished half-broke stuff. (And I don't fault anyone for that, because lots of my stuff on GitHub is like that.)
      - Gigablah 12y ago
        That's a bad assumption. You're saying I shouldn't commit code to GitHub until it's ready for release?

Readme, check. Docs, check. Screenshots, nope. Why would you not include that for a gui library?

by Hansi 12y ago

Readme, check. Docs, check. Screenshots, nope. Why would you not include that for a gui library?

tptacek 12y ago

Stupid programmers with their writing code instead of making pictures.

danudey 12y ago
Is it unreasonable to expect some kind of demonstration of what the code will accomplish before having to actually write a project which uses it? If this code works and is tested on OS X, Windows, and Linux, then one would assume the author has at least one test implementation, so it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to screenshot it, especially given that cross-platform toolkits have never, in my experience, actually looked or felt native on OS X.
- tptacek 12y ago
  People on HN have a very bad habit of assuming that any time something appears on HN, it's because the authors wanted to put on a show for HN. No.
  - shadowmint 12y ago
    Oh please, what kind of excuse is that? This library is clearly not written for the authors own personal benefit. Just look at the old readme; it's obviously written for other people to use and play with. Examples and screenshots are good; there's no reason for anyone to be defensive about not having them; the author can just add them. It's no big deal; it's helpful feedback.
    - andlabs 12y ago
      Partially true; I was driven to write this because I wasn't particularly satisfied with what already existed for various differing reasons. The current feature set and my own short-term plans are based around the GUI projects that I intend to write first (specifically a music authoring program). As for screenshots, I suppose I could upload a screenshot of the test program, but I'm not sure how much that would accomplish. I think a basic tutorial with screenshots at each step would probably be more useful, as it shows how the package works...
      - Xorlev 12y ago
        It would be quite helpful. I went to the README hoping to see how platform-native it is, even the test program would have been helpful.
    - stcredzero 12y ago
      >> People on HN have a very bad habit of assuming that any time something appears on HN, it's because the authors wanted to put on a show for HN. No. > Oh please, what kind of excuse is that? Just demonstrated tptacek's point. The author could be at a point where he wants others to see, but isn't quite ready for places like HN yet. In that case, it's not an excuse. Attitudes like this encourage pathological perfectionism.
      - shadowmint 12y ago
        It is an excuse. You don't need to polish something into a shiny gem of perfection before showing it to people; and you certainly don't need to get defensive about feedback (which in this case wasn't harsh at all); especially not for something out in the public that various people are already using. Iterative feedback and improvement can only happen if you get feedback. It's tempting to say that something isn't quite ready for others to see yet, it needs a bit more polish, and bit more internal beta testing, a bit more perfecting before you show it people. ...but I'd say that most cases, it's not the right attitude to encourage (although there are some very specific cases; like product launches where a botched launch has long term negative ramifications). Have a think about what you wrote there. You're endorsing self defensive attitude of perfectionism that you're criticizing.
        stcredzero 12y ago
        You're endorsing self defensive attitude of perfectionism that you're criticizing. No. I'm endorsing thinking a few steps ahead when criticizing. I think that should be the lower bar for feedback. Otherwise, it's too easy to engage in "feedback" as a means of self aggrandizement while humiliating others, which is as close as we can get to the Internet's official sport. (In particular, knee-jerk statements can be used to win over an uninformed crowd. They are the favorite ammunition of trolls.)
        shadowmint 12y ago
        Is it unreasonable to expect some kind of demonstration of what the code will accomplish before having to actually write a project which uses it? You think that perhaps danudey needed to stop for a moment and have a quiet think about that before posting it? Perhaps word it in a more friendly way somehow? Perhaps that it was a bit too harsh, and humiliated the original author? I totally get the basic point you're making, but it's just completely ridiculous to be making it in this specific case.
  - RyanMcGreal 12y ago
    I can't speak for anyone else but I assumed they put it on github because they want other people to be able to use it.
    - danielweber 12y ago
      It doesn't mean they're ready. Lots of stuff on GitHub is unfinished half-broke stuff. (And I don't fault anyone for that, because lots of my stuff on GitHub is like that.)
    - Gigablah 12y ago
      That's a bad assumption. You're saying I shouldn't commit code to GitHub until it's ready for release?