7 ms·

Abandonware archive

20 points by gjvc 12y ago

ekianjo 12y ago
I doubt most of this is legal. MSdos 6, for example, is still copyrighted as far as I know, and Microsoft can still enforce its rights...
- zokier 12y ago
  There is not really any doubt about it. Pirating Windows 1.0 is as illegal as pirating Windows 8.1. Abadonware as a concept/word is invented purely to make the people involved feel good about their illegitimate activity.
  - rwmj 12y ago
    "Illegitimate"? It's certainly illegal, but there is a very open question about whether it should be legal, and I would say that archiving, organizing and making freely available software that has no/little commercial value is a legitimate activity. Other types of intellectual property can be abandoned, so why not copyright? Patents are ineffective unless the owner actively enforces their rights by suing infringers. And trademarks are abandoned simply by not being used[1]. So why not let copyright lapse unless the owner regularly files for renewal, perhaps with a small fee attached to discourage auto-renewal. [1] http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abandonment_of_trademark http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abandonment_of_trademark
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > perhaps with a small fee attached to discourage auto-renewal. If it's a small fee, you can be sure that all large companies will enforce their copyrights forever (and Disney even continue to enforce copyrights that should have expired).
      - icebraining 12y ago
        Nobody said the copyright holders should be allowed to renew indefinitely.
    - Nursie 12y ago
      I'm pretty sure you're wrong about patents, I think that the non-enforcement thing relates to trademarks as well. Still, I don't disagree, I think an abandonware archive is a good thing. I always loved that Home Of The Underdogs (for example) existed, so I could get hold of old DOS games I used to own in the 80s but have long since lost.
      - _delirium 12y ago
        One doesn't lose a patent for non-enforcement (though it's possible equitable doctrines like laches could complicate future suits after a period of non-enforcement). However patents do require frequent explicit renewal, like copyright used to: maintenance fees have to be paid at 3.5, 7.5, and 11.5 years after the patent is granted, or it expires early.
        Fuxy 12y ago
        This is just a though but how cool would it be if after 20 years of copyright you would be required to pay a small fee that would grow exponentially and is required to be payed every 5 years. If a corporation values its copyright that much their going to pay if it's not that valuable they won't bother to keep it. That would certainly eliminate useless renewal.
        zokier 12y ago
        That would be even worse than the current system. At least now the system is equal to everyone, from starving artists and foss hackers to billion dollar corporations like Disney and MS.
  - viraptor 12y ago
    I don't think it was invented so that people can feel good. Usually it describes software that is simply impossible to buy anymore in any legal way. Illegal - sure. But does anyone really care if you download the original Commander Keen today? Not really...
    - Tomte 12y ago
      Since Commander Keen is still sold (on Steam), I'd be very careful with that statement.
      - Ntrails 12y ago
        It's one of my favourite conceptual things about steam - games will never again cease to be available. Not only will I never lose my 'disc', I can still tell people about it in 20 years time and expect it to be purchasable by them.
        zokier 12y ago
        > games will never again cease to be available At least as long as the title in question does not invoke the wrath of Gaben, and steam stays up and running. Which is not really that strong of a guarantee. I'm personally relatively happy with steam, but I fully acknowledge that it is not a long-term solution. I consider it more of a rental, which is fine considering the prices (I buy almost everything at -75%).
      - viraptor 12y ago
        Oh crap, I thought about Steam and decided "nah, that's a safe example, they won't have it" :) I'm actually really happy that both Steam and GoG re-release those older games.
        zokier 12y ago
        That brings up a very good point. You can't know what the IP holders are doing with their IP, or what they are planning. Just because you think some IP has been "abandoned" doesn't actually make it so.
  - Fuxy 12y ago
    If we don't archive them now do you really think we'll be able to find them in 100+ years when they are no longer copyrighted. We all know how good corporations are at preserving old software they lost the crypto key to Divx optical disc format (1999) do you really think these will survive until the copyright lapses? Hell if lawmakers and corporations have their way copyright will be 1000 years soon.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      Well, the Jack Valenti proposed forever minus one day, and he was supported by at least two congress members. A 1000 years seems like small pickings compared to that.
    - zokier 12y ago
      You don't need to offer downloads if you want to archive stuff.
  - chrismcb 12y ago
    abadonware typically refers to software where the owner is unknown or hard to track down. Not to software that the owner is still in business, and knows they own the copyright. Many times a company buys out another company, and then gets bought out itself. Sometimes a company doesn't even know it owns the rights, and other times it is almost impossible to track down who actually owns the rights... That is abondonware.
chris_wot 12y ago
"Cascade/DB is a revolutionary new relational database engine that can store complex objects in single rows, so you don't have to decompose your data into multiple tables. With Cascade, your apps contain fewer tables, and are faster to design, simpler to code, and easier to maintain. And they run up to 40 times faster due to fewer joins. All without breaking any relational rules." NoSQL for the 90s! http://vetusware.com/manufacturer/MicroQuill%20Software%20Publishing_%20Inc./?author=1088 http://vetusware.com/manufacturer/MicroQuill%20Software%20Pu...
gateaumoisi 12y ago
I really doubt that Adobe allows anyone to distribute older versions of Photoshop (the website has the 3.0 version). I don't see the reason to promote this website, especially when open source equivalent exists and are often as good as their commercial equivalent(s).
- CalRobert 12y ago
  Sometimes people need to open old files that are in proprietary formats, so a site like this could be helpful for people in that situation.
- rabino 12y ago
  There are some fun pieces of history in there. There's no commercial value, but it's like having a museum of software.

20 points by gjvc 12y ago

I doubt most of this is legal. MSdos 6, for example, is still copyrighted as far as I know, and Microsoft can still enforce its rights...

zokier 12y ago
There is not really any doubt about it. Pirating Windows 1.0 is as illegal as pirating Windows 8.1. Abadonware as a concept/word is invented purely to make the people involved feel good about their illegitimate activity.
- rwmj 12y ago
  "Illegitimate"? It's certainly illegal, but there is a very open question about whether it should be legal, and I would say that archiving, organizing and making freely available software that has no/little commercial value is a legitimate activity. Other types of intellectual property can be abandoned, so why not copyright? Patents are ineffective unless the owner actively enforces their rights by suing infringers. And trademarks are abandoned simply by not being used[1]. So why not let copyright lapse unless the owner regularly files for renewal, perhaps with a small fee attached to discourage auto-renewal. [1] http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abandonment_of_trademark http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abandonment_of_trademark
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    > perhaps with a small fee attached to discourage auto-renewal. If it's a small fee, you can be sure that all large companies will enforce their copyrights forever (and Disney even continue to enforce copyrights that should have expired).
    - icebraining 12y ago
      Nobody said the copyright holders should be allowed to renew indefinitely.
  - Nursie 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong about patents, I think that the non-enforcement thing relates to trademarks as well. Still, I don't disagree, I think an abandonware archive is a good thing. I always loved that Home Of The Underdogs (for example) existed, so I could get hold of old DOS games I used to own in the 80s but have long since lost.
    - _delirium 12y ago
      One doesn't lose a patent for non-enforcement (though it's possible equitable doctrines like laches could complicate future suits after a period of non-enforcement). However patents do require frequent explicit renewal, like copyright used to: maintenance fees have to be paid at 3.5, 7.5, and 11.5 years after the patent is granted, or it expires early.
      - Fuxy 12y ago
        This is just a though but how cool would it be if after 20 years of copyright you would be required to pay a small fee that would grow exponentially and is required to be payed every 5 years. If a corporation values its copyright that much their going to pay if it's not that valuable they won't bother to keep it. That would certainly eliminate useless renewal.
        zokier 12y ago
        That would be even worse than the current system. At least now the system is equal to everyone, from starving artists and foss hackers to billion dollar corporations like Disney and MS.
- viraptor 12y ago
  I don't think it was invented so that people can feel good. Usually it describes software that is simply impossible to buy anymore in any legal way. Illegal - sure. But does anyone really care if you download the original Commander Keen today? Not really...
  - Tomte 12y ago
    Since Commander Keen is still sold (on Steam), I'd be very careful with that statement.
    - Ntrails 12y ago
      It's one of my favourite conceptual things about steam - games will never again cease to be available. Not only will I never lose my 'disc', I can still tell people about it in 20 years time and expect it to be purchasable by them.
      - zokier 12y ago
        > games will never again cease to be available At least as long as the title in question does not invoke the wrath of Gaben, and steam stays up and running. Which is not really that strong of a guarantee. I'm personally relatively happy with steam, but I fully acknowledge that it is not a long-term solution. I consider it more of a rental, which is fine considering the prices (I buy almost everything at -75%).
    - viraptor 12y ago
      Oh crap, I thought about Steam and decided "nah, that's a safe example, they won't have it" :) I'm actually really happy that both Steam and GoG re-release those older games.
      - zokier 12y ago
        That brings up a very good point. You can't know what the IP holders are doing with their IP, or what they are planning. Just because you think some IP has been "abandoned" doesn't actually make it so.
- Fuxy 12y ago
  If we don't archive them now do you really think we'll be able to find them in 100+ years when they are no longer copyrighted. We all know how good corporations are at preserving old software they lost the crypto key to Divx optical disc format (1999) do you really think these will survive until the copyright lapses? Hell if lawmakers and corporations have their way copyright will be 1000 years soon.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    Well, the Jack Valenti proposed forever minus one day, and he was supported by at least two congress members. A 1000 years seems like small pickings compared to that.
  - zokier 12y ago
    You don't need to offer downloads if you want to archive stuff.
- chrismcb 12y ago
  abadonware typically refers to software where the owner is unknown or hard to track down. Not to software that the owner is still in business, and knows they own the copyright. Many times a company buys out another company, and then gets bought out itself. Sometimes a company doesn't even know it owns the rights, and other times it is almost impossible to track down who actually owns the rights... That is abondonware.

chris_wot 12y ago

"Cascade/DB is a revolutionary new relational database engine that can store complex objects in single rows, so you don't have to decompose your data into multiple tables. With Cascade, your apps contain fewer tables, and are faster to design, simpler to code, and easier to maintain. And they run up to 40 times faster due to fewer joins. All without breaking any relational rules." NoSQL for the 90s! http://vetusware.com/manufacturer/MicroQuill%20Software%20Publishing_%20Inc./?author=1088 http://vetusware.com/manufacturer/MicroQuill%20Software%20Pu...

gateaumoisi 12y ago

I really doubt that Adobe allows anyone to distribute older versions of Photoshop (the website has the 3.0 version). I don't see the reason to promote this website, especially when open source equivalent exists and are often as good as their commercial equivalent(s).

CalRobert 12y ago
Sometimes people need to open old files that are in proprietary formats, so a site like this could be helpful for people in that situation.
rabino 12y ago
There are some fun pieces of history in there. There's no commercial value, but it's like having a museum of software.