6 ms·

As someone who has sold millions of dollars worth of event (mostly broadway) tickets, the fact that they're moving that quickly says you're not charging enough.

As someone who has sold millions of dollars worth of event (mostly broadway) tickets, the fact that they're moving that quickly says you're not charging enough. My first instinct when I see something that moves that quickly is to write a program that reserves them for me and sell them at a 2x-3x profit on the secondary market. Is there an opportunity for that, or does a secondary market exist? Imagine traditional market economics applied to the same model - eBay for restaurants?

taurath 12y ago
Exclusivity is kinda a big deal to many restaurants. If you charge "open market" prices and get "open market" customers, people might be much quicker to decide the stall across the street is a lot more hip than you.
tptacek 12y ago
You can't do a secondary market for Alinea tickets. Consider also: the overwhelmingly dominant global standard for allocating fine dining tables --- the reservation system --- doesn't have any notion of floating prices. The owners of a restaurant design a menu and put a price on it. You could look the prices on up a site like Zagat and know that's what you'd be paying. (IIRC, Charlie Trotter's used to have a listing where the "price" was "VE", for "Very Expensive").
- bradleyjg 12y ago
  From: https://tickets.alinearestaurant.com/website/faq https://tickets.alinearestaurant.com/website/faq ----- Can I give my ticket away or sell it? Yes. The ticket is completely transferable. However, selling tickets for greater than face value may be illegal in your area. Anyone who purchases a ticket from another patron should take care to be sure that the ticket and times are as claimed by requesting both an email confirmation from us as well as a printed ticket from the seller. Any tickets purchased on the secondary market are at the purchaser's risk. We will not be held responsible for forgeries or misrepresentations. Can I just give my ticket away instead of transferring it on this site? Because we are calling all ticket holders before they dine with us we request that the tickets are formally transferred through our site. Log in and navigate to Manage Account ---> Transfer a Ticket. ----- I don't know exactly what laws govern (i.e. where you purchase or always Chicago) but at least on the face of it I don't see why there couldn't be a secondary market. The terms of service seems to reserve the right to shut down an abusive operation, but there's nothing clearly stating they would. P.S. nkokonas: on http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/reservations-contact/ http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/reservations-contac... the FAQ link on the bottom right points to the wrong place, it 404s. And thanks for the write up, it's fantastic, I hope one day to eat there.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- j_s 12y ago
  Per the article the author 'really, really disagree[s] with': Since the tickets can be resold, they end up on Craiglist etc and people pay $2000 http://cheaptalk.org/2014/01/06/nick-kokonas-is-still-wrong-about-not-using-auctions-at-next/ http://cheaptalk.org/2014/01/06/nick-kokonas-is-still-wrong-...
  - tptacek 12y ago
    I concede and now wallow in the soupy black of my wrongness.
nkokonas 12y ago
For a while people tried to do that. By law the tickets have to be transferable. However, scalping is illegal in IL unless they are licensed. As well, we do our best to limit the number of tables sold to any one CC, URL or email address. Impossible to fully police, but we try. We also put in URL blockers, bot protection, and a captcha to avoid people locking up tables quickly.
hft_throwaway 12y ago
I think it's a bad idea for a restaurant. Auctions generally involve "winner's curse" where the top bidder almost always overpays vs. fair value. Restaurants want to give customers a good experience to keep them coming back. Feeling like a sucker leads to buyer's remorse. Getting a "difficult" reservation feels like a prize. Sure Next tickets may be underpriced at times. I imagine the Trio menu will be a very hot ticket when it first comes out, but pricing so customers get a good value for the duration of the menu is a better long-term play. The guy who scores "underpriced" tickets will feel great about the experience, brag to his friends, and likely return. Are people who paid $800 for a PS4 happy about their decision today?
Nursie 12y ago
You are part of a problem. I can't say this strongly enough. Some people have tickets to sell, others would like to go to the event. You would interpose yourself to suck money out of the latter group while providing no service. You're making the world a worse place.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  Well, he's actually making the world a much better place for people with money who wish to go to these events, but don't have the time to wait in line for tickets. Normally, for events that are "underpriced" people with more time than money can attend events that people with more money than time can't. You are making a value judgement that people with time should be allowed to go to events, but people with money should not. That's fine for you to do, but I don't think you can make a global statement that people who enable this opportunity for people with more money than time are making the world a "worse place".
  - Nursie 12y ago
    No, I'm making a judgement that he is inserting himself into the process to extract money, while providing no value, and making the world a worse place. He is not enabling, he is disabling and profiteering, it's incredibly antisocial.
    - ghshephard 12y ago
      Well, as one who buys most of his tickets from StubHub, I certainly appreciate the opportunities to see events that I would otherwise never have gotten to have experienced. My life has been enriched, and I personally really appreciate that people and services like this exist - I certainly get a great deal of value from them. I'm not sure what's upsetting you so much. And, honestly, there is a big difference (at least to me) between someone making concert, sport, or event tickets available at a markup, (which, btw, is a pretty common Broadway system these days for plays, done by the theater themselves no third party required) - and buying up all the water after a disaster and selling it at a markup - I would consider that behavior to be anti-social and profiteering. Leisure activities are entirely optional. Making them available to people who want to see them, and can pay for them, seems to be a positive thing to me.

taurath 12y ago

Exclusivity is kinda a big deal to many restaurants. If you charge "open market" prices and get "open market" customers, people might be much quicker to decide the stall across the street is a lot more hip than you.

tptacek 12y ago

You can't do a secondary market for Alinea tickets. Consider also: the overwhelmingly dominant global standard for allocating fine dining tables --- the reservation system --- doesn't have any notion of floating prices. The owners of a restaurant design a menu and put a price on it. You could look the prices on up a site like Zagat and know that's what you'd be paying. (IIRC, Charlie Trotter's used to have a listing where the "price" was "VE", for "Very Expensive").

bradleyjg 12y ago
From: https://tickets.alinearestaurant.com/website/faq https://tickets.alinearestaurant.com/website/faq ----- Can I give my ticket away or sell it? Yes. The ticket is completely transferable. However, selling tickets for greater than face value may be illegal in your area. Anyone who purchases a ticket from another patron should take care to be sure that the ticket and times are as claimed by requesting both an email confirmation from us as well as a printed ticket from the seller. Any tickets purchased on the secondary market are at the purchaser's risk. We will not be held responsible for forgeries or misrepresentations. Can I just give my ticket away instead of transferring it on this site? Because we are calling all ticket holders before they dine with us we request that the tickets are formally transferred through our site. Log in and navigate to Manage Account ---> Transfer a Ticket. ----- I don't know exactly what laws govern (i.e. where you purchase or always Chicago) but at least on the face of it I don't see why there couldn't be a secondary market. The terms of service seems to reserve the right to shut down an abusive operation, but there's nothing clearly stating they would. P.S. nkokonas: on http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/reservations-contact/ http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/reservations-contac... the FAQ link on the bottom right points to the wrong place, it 404s. And thanks for the write up, it's fantastic, I hope one day to eat there.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
j_s 12y ago
Per the article the author 'really, really disagree[s] with': Since the tickets can be resold, they end up on Craiglist etc and people pay $2000 http://cheaptalk.org/2014/01/06/nick-kokonas-is-still-wrong-about-not-using-auctions-at-next/ http://cheaptalk.org/2014/01/06/nick-kokonas-is-still-wrong-...
- tptacek 12y ago
  I concede and now wallow in the soupy black of my wrongness.

nkokonas 12y ago

For a while people tried to do that. By law the tickets have to be transferable. However, scalping is illegal in IL unless they are licensed. As well, we do our best to limit the number of tables sold to any one CC, URL or email address. Impossible to fully police, but we try. We also put in URL blockers, bot protection, and a captcha to avoid people locking up tables quickly.

hft_throwaway 12y ago

I think it's a bad idea for a restaurant. Auctions generally involve "winner's curse" where the top bidder almost always overpays vs. fair value. Restaurants want to give customers a good experience to keep them coming back. Feeling like a sucker leads to buyer's remorse. Getting a "difficult" reservation feels like a prize. Sure Next tickets may be underpriced at times. I imagine the Trio menu will be a very hot ticket when it first comes out, but pricing so customers get a good value for the duration of the menu is a better long-term play. The guy who scores "underpriced" tickets will feel great about the experience, brag to his friends, and likely return. Are people who paid $800 for a PS4 happy about their decision today?

Nursie 12y ago

You are part of a problem. I can't say this strongly enough. Some people have tickets to sell, others would like to go to the event. You would interpose yourself to suck money out of the latter group while providing no service. You're making the world a worse place.

ghshephard 12y ago
Well, he's actually making the world a much better place for people with money who wish to go to these events, but don't have the time to wait in line for tickets. Normally, for events that are "underpriced" people with more time than money can attend events that people with more money than time can't. You are making a value judgement that people with time should be allowed to go to events, but people with money should not. That's fine for you to do, but I don't think you can make a global statement that people who enable this opportunity for people with more money than time are making the world a "worse place".
- Nursie 12y ago
  No, I'm making a judgement that he is inserting himself into the process to extract money, while providing no value, and making the world a worse place. He is not enabling, he is disabling and profiteering, it's incredibly antisocial.
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    Well, as one who buys most of his tickets from StubHub, I certainly appreciate the opportunities to see events that I would otherwise never have gotten to have experienced. My life has been enriched, and I personally really appreciate that people and services like this exist - I certainly get a great deal of value from them. I'm not sure what's upsetting you so much. And, honestly, there is a big difference (at least to me) between someone making concert, sport, or event tickets available at a markup, (which, btw, is a pretty common Broadway system these days for plays, done by the theater themselves no third party required) - and buying up all the water after a disaster and selling it at a markup - I would consider that behavior to be anti-social and profiteering. Leisure activities are entirely optional. Making them available to people who want to see them, and can pay for them, seems to be a positive thing to me.