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If everyone tries to reconcile everything the government does, no good person would ever work for the government. If you want to change it, change it from the

by dannyr 12y ago

If everyone tries to reconcile everything the government does, no good person would ever work for the government. If you want to change it, change it from the inside. Thats is what they are doing. People can protest on the streets or online but changing the government from the inside will be more effective.

pdeuchler 12y ago
This is probably the best reply I've gotten (I've asked this outside of this thread before as well), and my response would be to ask where the line is when one's efforts stop changing the machine (to abstract the discussion away from "government", not to insult it) and begins furthering it's interests. I honestly don't know the answer, and so I ask inflammatory questions to further my understanding of the issue.
cryoshon 12y ago
"Changing it from the inside" is a carrot dangled in front of people to make them think that they can effect change by becoming a cog in the machine. First off, cogs don't change the machine specifically because they're limited in their function. The people who join the government to try to change it from the inside are the same people who, five years later, complain that their hands are tied and they can't effect meaningful change for the better and must continue along the well-trodden path of obedience. I think Obama is a great example here, but I'm sure there are many others.
- dannyr 12y ago
  I did not say "Changing from the inside" works all the time. There's no perfect solution. If these YC alums, etc decide they don't want to be a "cog in the machine", how else can they have improved the healthcare web site?
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  The only possible way to change a government is from the inside. Even if you have a violent revolution, what happens next? The leaders of the revolt become the leaders on the inside of the new government. Government is not like a company you can boycott; it is an unavoidable attribute of human society. The operative questions are how are you participating in it to achieve your aims, and how effectively.

by dannyr 12y ago

pdeuchler 12y ago

This is probably the best reply I've gotten (I've asked this outside of this thread before as well), and my response would be to ask where the line is when one's efforts stop changing the machine (to abstract the discussion away from "government", not to insult it) and begins furthering it's interests. I honestly don't know the answer, and so I ask inflammatory questions to further my understanding of the issue.

cryoshon 12y ago

"Changing it from the inside" is a carrot dangled in front of people to make them think that they can effect change by becoming a cog in the machine. First off, cogs don't change the machine specifically because they're limited in their function. The people who join the government to try to change it from the inside are the same people who, five years later, complain that their hands are tied and they can't effect meaningful change for the better and must continue along the well-trodden path of obedience. I think Obama is a great example here, but I'm sure there are many others.

dannyr 12y ago
I did not say "Changing from the inside" works all the time. There's no perfect solution. If these YC alums, etc decide they don't want to be a "cog in the machine", how else can they have improved the healthcare web site?
snowwrestler 12y ago
The only possible way to change a government is from the inside. Even if you have a violent revolution, what happens next? The leaders of the revolt become the leaders on the inside of the new government. Government is not like a company you can boycott; it is an unavoidable attribute of human society. The operative questions are how are you participating in it to achieve your aims, and how effectively.