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Sounds to me like Businesses are spitefully avoiding creating jobs that they can't give to imported labor. I get that H1Bs are cheaper, and now, you can bring t

Sounds to me like Businesses are spitefully avoiding creating jobs that they can't give to imported labor. I get that H1Bs are cheaper, and now, you can bring them and their wives over, but why not just go there and save the rest of us having listen to you whine about not being able to find people, when it's really about finding people at sub-market prices?

arjn 12y ago
Thats funny. I'm an H1B and am definitely not cheaper than my US counterparts. So don't generalize.
- protomyth 12y ago
  Your case shouldn't be generalized either. Strangely, I'm getting a lot of 404's when trying to find the actual stats on the Dept of Labor website.
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    The parent is not generalizing. The first step of the application process, not just for H1B but for all employment-based visas (including green card), is to submit a ton of evidence to the Department of Labor that proves that you are being paid at least the median salary for your position in the region you are employed in. You can read more about that here (second paragraph): http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm Do some employers game this system? Sure. But doing so is risky and repeat offenders can get blacklisted by the USCIS.
    - protomyth 12y ago
      My own experience is that H1-Bs were cheap consultant fodder, but that was from the late 90's. Hire a bunch of folks from India under H-1B, place them at companies, and pay them lower (non-consultant wages, poor benefits), then collect the difference the higher bill rate. I can name a couple of companies in the Twin Cities that pulled that stunt. The above is my generalization of my experience as the GP and GGP did. I saw that page, but I was looking for the actual wage stats and kept running into 404s (including one from that page).
      - enraged_camel 12y ago
        Like I said, the system can be gamed. But that's not an argument against hiring foreign workers. It's an argument for improving the system to make it more robust.
        protomyth 12y ago
        No, its not an argument against hiring foreign workers. It is an argument that the current system is broken. I would prefer they do a very ungovernment thing and scrap it then replace it (without a gap / carrying over the workers) with something rethought. I would particularly be happier with something based on automatic worker visas for graduates of US universities, applying the permit to the spouse also, and no specific company assignment. This sponsored stuff keeps everyones wages down by not providing H-1B movement.
      - diogenescynic 12y ago
        >My own experience is that H1-Bs were cheap consultant fodder, but that was from the late 90's. Hire a bunch of folks from India under H-1B, place them at companies, and pay them lower (non-consultant wages, poor benefits), then collect the difference the higher bill rate. That's still how the bulk of H-1Bs are used. The majority of them are granted to companies like Cognizant, Infosys, TCS, and several others. For example: >The two largest H-1B users are Indian-based, Infosys, with 6,298 visas, and Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), with 6,258. In third place is Cognizant, which is based in New Jersey, but runs large offshore centers. These firms have long dominated the top H-1B list spots. >Hira points out that over the last four years, Cognizant has received about 23,000 new H-1B workers with visas valid for up to 6 years, and has a number of workers on L-1s. (L-1 visas are used by multinational firms to transfer employees between countries.) "So, most, if not nearly all, of Cognizant's employees in the US are on some guest-worker visa," said Hira. From: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247241/Offshore_firms_took_50_of_H_1B_visas_in_2013 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247241/Offshore_firm...
smtddr 12y ago
>>I get that H1Bs are cheaper, False. Maybe in some situations, but not in general if you consider _all_ the costs.
insuffi 12y ago
Wrong. http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2013/05/10-h1b-visas-stem-rothwell-ruiz http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2013/05/10-h1b-visa... H1bs on average earn more than us-born workers.
geekam 12y ago
I am on H1B and definitely above the market price in terms of cost. Not all H1B's are equal. Some of us studied here in the US and then got a job here. There is another class of H1B workers which are brought on-site. However, most important difference is the H1 vs L1. I have seen more abuse of L1 (and the employees) by companies like Cognizant, Wipro, Infosys etc.
syntern 12y ago
I'm on H1B, and having interviewed with several companies in the Valley, I'm definitely not below market price. And for the wifes part: my wife has the same qualification as I have (two MSc in CS/IT), yet, she is not allowed to work. Not even with the proposed change in the law, as it requires to have ongoing greencard process, which itself may take years. So if you think that those shobby cheap visa workers just bring their freeriders with them, you are very far away from the reality.

arjn 12y ago

Thats funny. I'm an H1B and am definitely not cheaper than my US counterparts. So don't generalize.

protomyth 12y ago
Your case shouldn't be generalized either. Strangely, I'm getting a lot of 404's when trying to find the actual stats on the Dept of Labor website.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  The parent is not generalizing. The first step of the application process, not just for H1B but for all employment-based visas (including green card), is to submit a ton of evidence to the Department of Labor that proves that you are being paid at least the median salary for your position in the region you are employed in. You can read more about that here (second paragraph): http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm Do some employers game this system? Sure. But doing so is risky and repeat offenders can get blacklisted by the USCIS.
  - protomyth 12y ago
    My own experience is that H1-Bs were cheap consultant fodder, but that was from the late 90's. Hire a bunch of folks from India under H-1B, place them at companies, and pay them lower (non-consultant wages, poor benefits), then collect the difference the higher bill rate. I can name a couple of companies in the Twin Cities that pulled that stunt. The above is my generalization of my experience as the GP and GGP did. I saw that page, but I was looking for the actual wage stats and kept running into 404s (including one from that page).
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      Like I said, the system can be gamed. But that's not an argument against hiring foreign workers. It's an argument for improving the system to make it more robust.
      - protomyth 12y ago
        No, its not an argument against hiring foreign workers. It is an argument that the current system is broken. I would prefer they do a very ungovernment thing and scrap it then replace it (without a gap / carrying over the workers) with something rethought. I would particularly be happier with something based on automatic worker visas for graduates of US universities, applying the permit to the spouse also, and no specific company assignment. This sponsored stuff keeps everyones wages down by not providing H-1B movement.
    - diogenescynic 12y ago
      >My own experience is that H1-Bs were cheap consultant fodder, but that was from the late 90's. Hire a bunch of folks from India under H-1B, place them at companies, and pay them lower (non-consultant wages, poor benefits), then collect the difference the higher bill rate. That's still how the bulk of H-1Bs are used. The majority of them are granted to companies like Cognizant, Infosys, TCS, and several others. For example: >The two largest H-1B users are Indian-based, Infosys, with 6,298 visas, and Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), with 6,258. In third place is Cognizant, which is based in New Jersey, but runs large offshore centers. These firms have long dominated the top H-1B list spots. >Hira points out that over the last four years, Cognizant has received about 23,000 new H-1B workers with visas valid for up to 6 years, and has a number of workers on L-1s. (L-1 visas are used by multinational firms to transfer employees between countries.) "So, most, if not nearly all, of Cognizant's employees in the US are on some guest-worker visa," said Hira. From: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247241/Offshore_firms_took_50_of_H_1B_visas_in_2013 http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247241/Offshore_firm...

smtddr 12y ago

>>I get that H1Bs are cheaper, False. Maybe in some situations, but not in general if you consider _all_ the costs.

insuffi 12y ago

Wrong. http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2013/05/10-h1b-visas-stem-rothwell-ruiz http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2013/05/10-h1b-visa... H1bs on average earn more than us-born workers.

geekam 12y ago

I am on H1B and definitely above the market price in terms of cost. Not all H1B's are equal. Some of us studied here in the US and then got a job here. There is another class of H1B workers which are brought on-site. However, most important difference is the H1 vs L1. I have seen more abuse of L1 (and the employees) by companies like Cognizant, Wipro, Infosys etc.

syntern 12y ago

I'm on H1B, and having interviewed with several companies in the Valley, I'm definitely not below market price. And for the wifes part: my wife has the same qualification as I have (two MSc in CS/IT), yet, she is not allowed to work. Not even with the proposed change in the law, as it requires to have ongoing greencard process, which itself may take years. So if you think that those shobby cheap visa workers just bring their freeriders with them, you are very far away from the reality.