4 ms·

"Compiled" is a pretty tricky thing, even Python and Ruby are "compiled". How about "Yet Another Syntax Without Any Interesting Semantics, With a Bonus of Bein

"Compiled" is a pretty tricky thing, even Python and Ruby are "compiled". How about "Yet Another Syntax Without Any Interesting Semantics, With a Bonus of Being Proprietary" (YASWAISWBBP)

reubenmorais 12y ago
>Without Any Interesting Semantics You don't use a drill because of how interesting it is that the shape of the drill bit combined with its rotation lift material out of the hole. You do it because it works, and is efficient. A programming language is a tool, not a toy.
- justin_vanw 12y ago
  That's literally my entire point, stated in the form of disagreement. Why would you use a new tool that has no support and no clear advantage or distinguishing features, when there are a dozen with fully fleshed out ecosystems?
chc 12y ago
I don't think there is any other mainstreamish language with enforced option types. Even Scala and F# just cave and allow nulls everywhere. Swift's constellation of features is very interesting IMO.
- justin_vanw 12y ago
  1. Swift is not a mainstream language. Maybe you trust in Apple's ability to turn it into one. 2. Haskell and Common Lisp, but maybe those aren't "mainstreamish".
  - chc 12y ago
    It's the primary language for a huge platform. I don't know how much more mainstream you can get. This seems a bit like saying, "I'm not sure the newly elected US president is a significant figure in US politics." And no, neither Haskell nor Common Lisp are anywhere in the same city as the mainstream. For an idea of what I mean, pick a reasonably significant "target domain" for the language and consider how many major applications are written in that language. There is no platform on which Haskell or Common Lisp get used very much compared to other languages. Objective-C is clearly a dominant presence on iOS, C# rules Windows, Java has a lock on the enterprise, C and C++ are the bosses of systems programming, Haskell is…an interesting language whose motto is "avoid success at all costs." And also, I don't think Common Lisp has enforced option types. (car '(1)) is 1 while (cadr '(1)) is NIL. Am I mistaken?
- oscargrouch 12y ago
  Rust
  - chc 12y ago
    Is the idea of "mainstream" really that vague to people? Rust is the opposite of what I meant by that.
    - oscargrouch 12y ago
      while Swift announcement may have caused a lot of hype, im pretty sure its not mainstream by now.. So Rust just fits into your concept of "mainstream", thats why i've cited it :)
      - chc 12y ago
        I'll go ahead and quote myself: > [Swift is] the primary language for a huge platform. I don't know how much more mainstream you can get. This seems a bit like saying, "I'm not sure the newly elected US president is a significant figure in US politics." > For an idea of what I mean, pick a reasonably significant "target domain" for the language and consider how many major applications are written in that language. There is no platform on which Haskell or Common Lisp get used very much compared to other languages. Objective-C is clearly a dominant presence on iOS, C# rules Windows, Java has a lock on the enterprise, C and C++ are the bosses of systems programming, Haskell is…an interesting language whose motto is "avoid success at all costs." Rust does not fit into this concept of "mainstream." It is a forgone conclusion that many iOS 8 apps will be written in Swift. Rust has no niche yet.

"Compiled" is a pretty tricky thing, even Python and Ruby are "compiled". How about "Yet Another Syntax Without Any Interesting Semantics, With a Bonus of Being Proprietary" (YASWAISWBBP)

reubenmorais 12y ago

>Without Any Interesting Semantics You don't use a drill because of how interesting it is that the shape of the drill bit combined with its rotation lift material out of the hole. You do it because it works, and is efficient. A programming language is a tool, not a toy.

justin_vanw 12y ago
That's literally my entire point, stated in the form of disagreement. Why would you use a new tool that has no support and no clear advantage or distinguishing features, when there are a dozen with fully fleshed out ecosystems?

chc 12y ago

I don't think there is any other mainstreamish language with enforced option types. Even Scala and F# just cave and allow nulls everywhere. Swift's constellation of features is very interesting IMO.

justin_vanw 12y ago
1. Swift is not a mainstream language. Maybe you trust in Apple's ability to turn it into one. 2. Haskell and Common Lisp, but maybe those aren't "mainstreamish".
- chc 12y ago
  It's the primary language for a huge platform. I don't know how much more mainstream you can get. This seems a bit like saying, "I'm not sure the newly elected US president is a significant figure in US politics." And no, neither Haskell nor Common Lisp are anywhere in the same city as the mainstream. For an idea of what I mean, pick a reasonably significant "target domain" for the language and consider how many major applications are written in that language. There is no platform on which Haskell or Common Lisp get used very much compared to other languages. Objective-C is clearly a dominant presence on iOS, C# rules Windows, Java has a lock on the enterprise, C and C++ are the bosses of systems programming, Haskell is…an interesting language whose motto is "avoid success at all costs." And also, I don't think Common Lisp has enforced option types. (car '(1)) is 1 while (cadr '(1)) is NIL. Am I mistaken?
oscargrouch 12y ago
Rust
- chc 12y ago
  Is the idea of "mainstream" really that vague to people? Rust is the opposite of what I meant by that.
  - oscargrouch 12y ago
    while Swift announcement may have caused a lot of hype, im pretty sure its not mainstream by now.. So Rust just fits into your concept of "mainstream", thats why i've cited it :)
    - chc 12y ago
      I'll go ahead and quote myself: > [Swift is] the primary language for a huge platform. I don't know how much more mainstream you can get. This seems a bit like saying, "I'm not sure the newly elected US president is a significant figure in US politics." > For an idea of what I mean, pick a reasonably significant "target domain" for the language and consider how many major applications are written in that language. There is no platform on which Haskell or Common Lisp get used very much compared to other languages. Objective-C is clearly a dominant presence on iOS, C# rules Windows, Java has a lock on the enterprise, C and C++ are the bosses of systems programming, Haskell is…an interesting language whose motto is "avoid success at all costs." Rust does not fit into this concept of "mainstream." It is a forgone conclusion that many iOS 8 apps will be written in Swift. Rust has no niche yet.