6 ms·

Stop punishing your users

46 points by pea 12y ago

JacobAldridge 12y ago
When in doubt, ask 'What will add value to my users?' If the answer is 'I don't know' then step away from the desk and go talk to them.
moron4hire 12y ago
I'm pretty sure "lack of constant annoyance" is a killer feature for most people. At least it is for me.
- TuringTest 12y ago
  Yup. Unfortunately, it seems we're doomed to repeat the browser popup wars and relearn all its lessons, now from courtesy of the Mandatory Signup and the Undismissable Floating Div.
Malarkey73 12y ago
That's great - don't punish users - but I still have no idea from their actual website landing page (kivo.com) what kivo is... Something for uploading and making annotations on slides? Why do I want to do that? So however easy or un-punishing "it" is, is really irrelevant.
- edmack 12y ago
  Our team use it to collaborate with clients on work we're doing for them
- pea 12y ago
  Thanks for your reply! Sorry our homepage wasn't clear enough: Kivo is a way to annotate presentations and PDFs in the browser. If you want more info, check out the video on the homepage or try the example presentation below it. Re the problem we are trying to solve: giving feedback on documents really sucks. Emailing around 'Slide 1: change x,y,z, Slide 2: change this' and other out-of-context comments is a massive pain-point for users, who want to be able to do it quickly, visually, and in their browser (instead of in an old piece of desktop software). Feel free to ping me on leo@kivo.com if you have any more questions.
  - wingerlang 12y ago
    I disagree with the one you replied to. I instantly understood what it was about, and with the example it solidified my thoughts.
    - TuringTest 12y ago
      However, it wouldn't hurt if the home page had the above explanation explicitly written, and if they mentioned who is behind the site. Also, common questions like "where are my documents stored", "is it secure", "how do I share the result and who can see it"... remain unanswered.
      - TuringTest 12y ago
        As it happens, they do have a FAQ answering those questions; it's hidden behind the signup process. It just didn't occur to them that it would be useful to have it at the home page. It seems they didn't really learn the lesson.
        zefi 12y ago
        Thanks for the feedback! I work with Leo at Kivo. We've gone through a fair few iterations of our home page and we know it's not perfect yet. Right now we're trying to throw people right in to the product itself and then if they have more questions after that then they can find them in the site. But you're right we need to be upfront about a lot of information, it's just a balancing act, we're trying to find the right point. Thanks again.
        TuringTest 12y ago
        That's the problem - I couldn't find the information I was looking for at the site. It took a leap of faith to sign up to find the FAQ, expecting that the interface for registered users would be more complete; exactly the same problem you were trying to solve when removing mandatory signup. The only parts of the site that should be hidden behind the sign up process are those that only affect logged-in users; learning about the site and business is not one of those. Most of that information does not need to be located at the front page itself, but there must be a link allowing the user to find it.
chrisbennet 12y ago
This is such a obvious insight that I wonder why more companies don't "get it".
rokhayakebe 12y ago
I too had a content site where I did not ask users to sign up. First 2 years, 83 emails. Then one day I changed that and forced them before clicking through. First DAY 100+ emails. And it never stopped until I shut it down.
- coldtea 12y ago
  Well, if emails was what you wanted, that's good. But if users were what you wanted, you could be losing tons of traffic, and those 100+ emails per day could be insignificant to what you had before.
  - zefi 12y ago
    Spot on.
brianolson 12y ago
Title is going to need more data to get me to click on this. Stop punishing your users ... with ugly color schemes? ... with UI of many useless clicks? ... with full motion video autoplay ads?
- aet 12y ago
  or web apps in general?
notduncansmith 12y ago
Coming soon, the response post: "Stop Punishing Your Investors"
strict9 12y ago
It's unfortunate they punished me as a user by having a mobile design that truncates several letters on the right side of viewport on iOS, making article unreadable.
- zefi 12y ago
  I work with Leo at Kivo. Thanks for pointing this out, we'll be fixing this ASAP. Sorry you felt punished!
ulisesrmzroche 12y ago
I think you guys are overthinking it. The reason why it worked is because you let your users demo the product, for free, no strings attached. This is a tried-and-true advertising practice, and it's the same as 'Show, don't tell'. This is why people put pictures of the product on their ads. I think that anyone who scraps their landing page (and facebook has probably the ugliest one in the known internet) and just puts their product front-and-center will easily increase their conversion by at least 10%.
lnanek2 12y ago
Otherwise known as gradual engagement. Let the users enjoy as much as possible before you force them through a registration process and then more of them will be willing to do it. Props to them for doing it. It is certainly harder than just dropping in a login required on everything like modern web starter projects make so easy.
tempodox 12y ago
I found this passage remarkable: ...signing up is so easy! It takes a few seconds... How can any-one come to such a blatant misconception? No, sign-up is NOT easy and it takes WAY more than a few seconds. I have to think up another effing password and have my password vault handy for adding it to the cheat sheet. Not knowing what it is you sign up for doesn't exactly make it any easier, either. I still have no idea what Kivo does...
mikestew 12y ago
And yet there is no "sign up" button that works. Oh, there's a button that says "sign up", but it takes you to a screen where there is no opportunity to sign up. You mean the "sign in" button? Well, a user without sign in creds is going to have to go on faith that if they click that button there will be a place to create an account. Pedantic, I know, but I did scroll through the page looking for a way to create an account. I didn't find one and took the leap of faith that the "sign in" button would offer an account creation opportunity. And, no, I never did sign up.
- pea 12y ago
  Hey Mike -- my bad, I just realised that the sign-up button on the blog actually takes you to kivo.com, instead of actually signing you up (and that you have to click sign-up there again). I'll get on fixing this ASAP. Thanks for your feedback!
wahsd 12y ago
Congratulations on realizing that. Too many sites and services throw all kinds of barriers and trip hazards in front of you before you can even take a look at whether you would want to stick around. It makes no sense. People should be motivated to sign up because they want additional functionality that is an addition to what they love your product for in the first place or to overcome a limitation.

46 points by pea 12y ago

When in doubt, ask 'What will add value to my users?' If the answer is 'I don't know' then step away from the desk and go talk to them.

moron4hire 12y ago

I'm pretty sure "lack of constant annoyance" is a killer feature for most people. At least it is for me.

TuringTest 12y ago
Yup. Unfortunately, it seems we're doomed to repeat the browser popup wars and relearn all its lessons, now from courtesy of the Mandatory Signup and the Undismissable Floating Div.

Malarkey73 12y ago

That's great - don't punish users - but I still have no idea from their actual website landing page (kivo.com) what kivo is... Something for uploading and making annotations on slides? Why do I want to do that? So however easy or un-punishing "it" is, is really irrelevant.

edmack 12y ago
Our team use it to collaborate with clients on work we're doing for them
pea 12y ago
Thanks for your reply! Sorry our homepage wasn't clear enough: Kivo is a way to annotate presentations and PDFs in the browser. If you want more info, check out the video on the homepage or try the example presentation below it. Re the problem we are trying to solve: giving feedback on documents really sucks. Emailing around 'Slide 1: change x,y,z, Slide 2: change this' and other out-of-context comments is a massive pain-point for users, who want to be able to do it quickly, visually, and in their browser (instead of in an old piece of desktop software). Feel free to ping me on leo@kivo.com if you have any more questions.
- wingerlang 12y ago
  I disagree with the one you replied to. I instantly understood what it was about, and with the example it solidified my thoughts.
  - TuringTest 12y ago
    However, it wouldn't hurt if the home page had the above explanation explicitly written, and if they mentioned who is behind the site. Also, common questions like "where are my documents stored", "is it secure", "how do I share the result and who can see it"... remain unanswered.
    - TuringTest 12y ago
      As it happens, they do have a FAQ answering those questions; it's hidden behind the signup process. It just didn't occur to them that it would be useful to have it at the home page. It seems they didn't really learn the lesson.
      - zefi 12y ago
        Thanks for the feedback! I work with Leo at Kivo. We've gone through a fair few iterations of our home page and we know it's not perfect yet. Right now we're trying to throw people right in to the product itself and then if they have more questions after that then they can find them in the site. But you're right we need to be upfront about a lot of information, it's just a balancing act, we're trying to find the right point. Thanks again.
        TuringTest 12y ago
        That's the problem - I couldn't find the information I was looking for at the site. It took a leap of faith to sign up to find the FAQ, expecting that the interface for registered users would be more complete; exactly the same problem you were trying to solve when removing mandatory signup. The only parts of the site that should be hidden behind the sign up process are those that only affect logged-in users; learning about the site and business is not one of those. Most of that information does not need to be located at the front page itself, but there must be a link allowing the user to find it.

chrisbennet 12y ago

This is such a obvious insight that I wonder why more companies don't "get it".

rokhayakebe 12y ago

I too had a content site where I did not ask users to sign up. First 2 years, 83 emails. Then one day I changed that and forced them before clicking through. First DAY 100+ emails. And it never stopped until I shut it down.

coldtea 12y ago
Well, if emails was what you wanted, that's good. But if users were what you wanted, you could be losing tons of traffic, and those 100+ emails per day could be insignificant to what you had before.
- zefi 12y ago
  Spot on.

brianolson 12y ago

Title is going to need more data to get me to click on this. Stop punishing your users ... with ugly color schemes? ... with UI of many useless clicks? ... with full motion video autoplay ads?

aet 12y ago
or web apps in general?

notduncansmith 12y ago

Coming soon, the response post: "Stop Punishing Your Investors"

strict9 12y ago

It's unfortunate they punished me as a user by having a mobile design that truncates several letters on the right side of viewport on iOS, making article unreadable.

zefi 12y ago
I work with Leo at Kivo. Thanks for pointing this out, we'll be fixing this ASAP. Sorry you felt punished!

ulisesrmzroche 12y ago

I think you guys are overthinking it. The reason why it worked is because you let your users demo the product, for free, no strings attached. This is a tried-and-true advertising practice, and it's the same as 'Show, don't tell'. This is why people put pictures of the product on their ads. I think that anyone who scraps their landing page (and facebook has probably the ugliest one in the known internet) and just puts their product front-and-center will easily increase their conversion by at least 10%.

lnanek2 12y ago

Otherwise known as gradual engagement. Let the users enjoy as much as possible before you force them through a registration process and then more of them will be willing to do it. Props to them for doing it. It is certainly harder than just dropping in a login required on everything like modern web starter projects make so easy.

tempodox 12y ago

I found this passage remarkable: ...signing up is so easy! It takes a few seconds... How can any-one come to such a blatant misconception? No, sign-up is NOT easy and it takes WAY more than a few seconds. I have to think up another effing password and have my password vault handy for adding it to the cheat sheet. Not knowing what it is you sign up for doesn't exactly make it any easier, either. I still have no idea what Kivo does...

mikestew 12y ago

And yet there is no "sign up" button that works. Oh, there's a button that says "sign up", but it takes you to a screen where there is no opportunity to sign up. You mean the "sign in" button? Well, a user without sign in creds is going to have to go on faith that if they click that button there will be a place to create an account. Pedantic, I know, but I did scroll through the page looking for a way to create an account. I didn't find one and took the leap of faith that the "sign in" button would offer an account creation opportunity. And, no, I never did sign up.

pea 12y ago
Hey Mike -- my bad, I just realised that the sign-up button on the blog actually takes you to kivo.com, instead of actually signing you up (and that you have to click sign-up there again). I'll get on fixing this ASAP. Thanks for your feedback!

wahsd 12y ago

Congratulations on realizing that. Too many sites and services throw all kinds of barriers and trip hazards in front of you before you can even take a look at whether you would want to stick around. It makes no sense. People should be motivated to sign up because they want additional functionality that is an addition to what they love your product for in the first place or to overcome a limitation.