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Most gun deaths in the U.S. are not accidents, they are suicides. Then homicides, then accidents. And I'm not proposing banning guns, I'm challenging the comm

Most gun deaths in the U.S. are not accidents, they are suicides. Then homicides, then accidents. And I'm not proposing banning guns, I'm challenging the commonly-held narrative that guns "keep us safe." The statistics are unequivocal that they do not.

jordan0day 12y ago
Sometimes I think the "keep us safe" line, though, is really just an attempt at trying to have a more respectable-sounding defense than "I think they're pretty neat!" Gun owners are constantly on the defensive (except, of course, when their lobbying groups are being rather offensive), and constantly required to justify their existence, so of course they're going to go with something that sounds more noble than "but it's a cool hobby!" It's probably been parroted so much that a lot of people who say it actually believe it. Full disclosure: I've never owned a gun, but I do think they're pretty neat.
- jack-r-abbit 12y ago
  Speaking of justifying hobbies... I wonder how many people with cars that go faster than 75 mph (which I believe is the highest speed limit found in the US) have to justify why they need to go that fast. Cars are dangerous and Speed Kills after all. Full disclosure: I've never owned a really fast car, but I do think they're pretty neat.
JoeAltmaier 12y ago
That's unsubstantiated. The fact is, guns keep us safe AND they are a risk. Risk because they are a favored route for suicide (not really the gun's fault) and so on. Safe because, you know, folks who own and use guns properly are victimized less. That's an important statistic, and its disingenuous to ignore it.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Safe because, you know, folks who own and use guns properly are victimized less. That's pretty much an empty tautology, since any use of guns that doesn't provide this effect can be dismissed as "improper".
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    If you like. Or you can talk about training and facility with a firearm. Regular things with known meanings.

jordan0day 12y ago

Sometimes I think the "keep us safe" line, though, is really just an attempt at trying to have a more respectable-sounding defense than "I think they're pretty neat!" Gun owners are constantly on the defensive (except, of course, when their lobbying groups are being rather offensive), and constantly required to justify their existence, so of course they're going to go with something that sounds more noble than "but it's a cool hobby!" It's probably been parroted so much that a lot of people who say it actually believe it. Full disclosure: I've never owned a gun, but I do think they're pretty neat.

jack-r-abbit 12y ago
Speaking of justifying hobbies... I wonder how many people with cars that go faster than 75 mph (which I believe is the highest speed limit found in the US) have to justify why they need to go that fast. Cars are dangerous and Speed Kills after all. Full disclosure: I've never owned a really fast car, but I do think they're pretty neat.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

That's unsubstantiated. The fact is, guns keep us safe AND they are a risk. Risk because they are a favored route for suicide (not really the gun's fault) and so on. Safe because, you know, folks who own and use guns properly are victimized less. That's an important statistic, and its disingenuous to ignore it.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Safe because, you know, folks who own and use guns properly are victimized less. That's pretty much an empty tautology, since any use of guns that doesn't provide this effect can be dismissed as "improper".
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  If you like. Or you can talk about training and facility with a firearm. Regular things with known meanings.