5 ms·

The #YesAllWomen campaign opened my eyes, too. When three men and three women are murdered, we focus completely on the women. When men are overwhelmingly dispr

The #YesAllWomen campaign opened my eyes, too. When three men and three women are murdered, we focus completely on the women. When men are overwhelmingly disproportionately the victim of homicides, violent crime (including violent crime from strangers), we instead choose to have a society-wide struggle session[1] on the plight of western women. Western culture is hypersensitive to women's issues. In particular, hyper-affluent White men seem to derive some carnal pleasure from throwing other men under the bus. As long as people care far more about the plight of women than the plight of men, and as long as Twitter/HN activists mock anyone who points out the compassion disparity ("WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ?"), we're never going to achieve anything resembling equality. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

seldo 12y ago
> As long as people care far more about the plight of women than the plight of men ... we're never going to achieve anything resembling equality. I'm unclear on your thesis here: is your position that the reason women are disadvantaged in society in general and tech in particular because we "care more about the plight of women"? Because that seems illogical. But the only other interpretation I can think of is that you think men are at a disadvantage to women, which is a laughable assertion. Your account is 6 days old, of course, so I may be just feeding a troll here.
- a-t-shirt 12y ago
  > But the only other interpretation I can think of is that you think men are at a disadvantage to women, which is a laughable assertion. For men and women born since the mid-1980s, absolutely. And crime, education, and income statistics support my assertion.
  - seldo 12y ago
    It is possible for it to be simultaneously true that men are more frequently victims of violent crime, perform worse in standardized tests, and earn less than women[1] and also that women are more frequently the victims of sexual assault[2] and other forms of harassment, prevented from taking the careers of their choice[3], and subject to a greater degree of criticism in the media for the same actions[4]. The existence of things that are bad for men does mean that men have things harder than women. The fact that there are things we should fix for men does not mean we can ignore the things that are broken for women. This is not a zero-sum game, and it is not productive to determine who "has it worse". There are things that are bad for women that happen to women, and we should stop those things happening without questioning whether they are "deserving" of doing so. [1] Though I have never seen any stats that back up this last assertion, ever. [2] https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-... [3] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131007151635.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131007151635.ht... [4] http://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/03/how-we-criticize-men-vs-how-we-criticize-women/ http://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/03/how-we-criticize...
the_hangman 12y ago
I have a sneaking feeling that the #YesAllWomen thing might have gone a bit over your head. It wasn't because more women died. It wasn't because of the plight of the western woman. #YesAllWomen was a more-or-less spontaneous response to the killer's motives. It was because the killer thought that he was entitled to get whatever he wanted from any woman he wanted, and wanted to make them suffer for depriving him of what he felt he deserved (sex with beautiful women). While most men will never go to that extreme, all women have experienced some form of punishment from a male for denying their sexual advances. If you can't see why society would respond to that the way that it did, I'm not sure that a western society is appropriate for a person with your worldview.
- stellar1 12y ago
  While #YesAllWomen was eye opening in many ways, I don't think your snark was constructive. I think there's a problem with the sancrosanct way #YesAllWomen is being treated. In my casual browsing, I quickly found someone complaining that she feels guilty for 'friendzoning' a guy and cursing society for that. Guess what, I and many other guys have had that feeling with respect to a woman at some point. If you can't see why someone might get defensive after reading these tweets (as they were urged to do), I'm not sure that reality is appropriate for you.
  - the_hangman 12y ago
    Are you trying to say that you have felt threatened, unsafe or like you were going to be alienated because you had to friendzone a female? Because I can't say that I have. And I honestly have a hard time believing that you have either. I wasn't being snarky, but you appear to take this subject much more lightly than I do. That's fine. I was being serious about what I said. The commenter above mine was either or troll or someone who actually thinks that men have it harder because of the women's rights movement. If it's the latter, he needs to know that it's not an okay attitude to have in our society. I'm not a hyper-affluent white male, so unfortunately I'm not just confirming his hypothesis.
    - a-t-shirt 12y ago

seldo 12y ago

> As long as people care far more about the plight of women than the plight of men ... we're never going to achieve anything resembling equality. I'm unclear on your thesis here: is your position that the reason women are disadvantaged in society in general and tech in particular because we "care more about the plight of women"? Because that seems illogical. But the only other interpretation I can think of is that you think men are at a disadvantage to women, which is a laughable assertion. Your account is 6 days old, of course, so I may be just feeding a troll here.

a-t-shirt 12y ago
> But the only other interpretation I can think of is that you think men are at a disadvantage to women, which is a laughable assertion. For men and women born since the mid-1980s, absolutely. And crime, education, and income statistics support my assertion.
- seldo 12y ago
  It is possible for it to be simultaneously true that men are more frequently victims of violent crime, perform worse in standardized tests, and earn less than women[1] and also that women are more frequently the victims of sexual assault[2] and other forms of harassment, prevented from taking the careers of their choice[3], and subject to a greater degree of criticism in the media for the same actions[4]. The existence of things that are bad for men does mean that men have things harder than women. The fact that there are things we should fix for men does not mean we can ignore the things that are broken for women. This is not a zero-sum game, and it is not productive to determine who "has it worse". There are things that are bad for women that happen to women, and we should stop those things happening without questioning whether they are "deserving" of doing so. [1] Though I have never seen any stats that back up this last assertion, ever. [2] https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-... [3] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131007151635.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131007151635.ht... [4] http://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/03/how-we-criticize-men-vs-how-we-criticize-women/ http://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/03/how-we-criticize...

the_hangman 12y ago

I have a sneaking feeling that the #YesAllWomen thing might have gone a bit over your head. It wasn't because more women died. It wasn't because of the plight of the western woman. #YesAllWomen was a more-or-less spontaneous response to the killer's motives. It was because the killer thought that he was entitled to get whatever he wanted from any woman he wanted, and wanted to make them suffer for depriving him of what he felt he deserved (sex with beautiful women). While most men will never go to that extreme, all women have experienced some form of punishment from a male for denying their sexual advances. If you can't see why society would respond to that the way that it did, I'm not sure that a western society is appropriate for a person with your worldview.

stellar1 12y ago
While #YesAllWomen was eye opening in many ways, I don't think your snark was constructive. I think there's a problem with the sancrosanct way #YesAllWomen is being treated. In my casual browsing, I quickly found someone complaining that she feels guilty for 'friendzoning' a guy and cursing society for that. Guess what, I and many other guys have had that feeling with respect to a woman at some point. If you can't see why someone might get defensive after reading these tweets (as they were urged to do), I'm not sure that reality is appropriate for you.
- the_hangman 12y ago
  Are you trying to say that you have felt threatened, unsafe or like you were going to be alienated because you had to friendzone a female? Because I can't say that I have. And I honestly have a hard time believing that you have either. I wasn't being snarky, but you appear to take this subject much more lightly than I do. That's fine. I was being serious about what I said. The commenter above mine was either or troll or someone who actually thinks that men have it harder because of the women's rights movement. If it's the latter, he needs to know that it's not an okay attitude to have in our society. I'm not a hyper-affluent white male, so unfortunately I'm not just confirming his hypothesis.
  - a-t-shirt 12y ago