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Doesn't aluminum smelting use crazy amounts of electricity and emit significant greenhouse gases? So not only would we be doing that, we'd also have to ship the

by abalone 12y ago

Doesn't aluminum smelting use crazy amounts of electricity and emit significant greenhouse gases? So not only would we be doing that, we'd also have to ship these 220 lb modules back to the smelters every 1,000 miles? Is there anybody advocating for this besides aluminum smelters?

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Read article. The smelter they are using is hydroelectric and the 1000 miles air battery range is only used on long journeys as mostly the car runs on lithium.
- fancyketchup 12y ago
  I think... you might want to read up on aluminum smelting, which converts alumina (Al2O3) into aluminum (Al). The process involves passing a large current between two graphite (carbon) electrodes via the alumina. Al2O3 + carbon => Al + CO2 Edit: I can only guess that the down votes are for not providing a source? Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting It doesn't matter if the smelter runs on fairy dust or hippie juice. Reducing aluminum oxide to aluminum produces CO2 no matter the energy source.
  - scotty79 12y ago
    It seems that you can significantly reduce carbon emissions of aluminum smelting if you use energy source that does not emit carbon dioxide. From http://aluminium.org.au/climate-change/smelting-greenhouse-performance http://aluminium.org.au/climate-change/smelting-greenhouse-p... The smelting of aluminium is a very energy intensive process – and over 80 per cent of smelting greenhouse gas emissions are indirect (electricity-related) emissions. The remaining emissions come from direct (on-site) emissions plus the emissions associated with the production of alumina.
    - abalone 12y ago
      That's true but the direct emissions are still very substantial. It only seems small in comparison because smelting uses so much electricity to begin with.
- abalone 12y ago
  I read the article. Hydroelectric is not free -- to scale up to powering the automotive industry requires more dams with massive ecological impact -- and you left out the part out greenhouse gases and the transportation of heavy batteries over hundreds or thousands of miles per recharge. 1K miles could be easily used up on a couple roundtrips. That's not even 2 roundtrips between SF and LA.
patrickg_zill 12y ago
Aluminum does use a lot of electricity. The first time; that is why recycling aluminum which is cheap, very easy to do, and does not require much power, is such a win.
- abalone 12y ago
  Are you suggesting "recharging" these batteries happens via recycling? That is not true. Aluminum is converted to alumina via the reaction and they need to be resmelted, just like the first time.

by abalone 12y ago

lotsofmangos 12y ago

Read article. The smelter they are using is hydroelectric and the 1000 miles air battery range is only used on long journeys as mostly the car runs on lithium.

fancyketchup 12y ago
I think... you might want to read up on aluminum smelting, which converts alumina (Al2O3) into aluminum (Al). The process involves passing a large current between two graphite (carbon) electrodes via the alumina. Al2O3 + carbon => Al + CO2 Edit: I can only guess that the down votes are for not providing a source? Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting It doesn't matter if the smelter runs on fairy dust or hippie juice. Reducing aluminum oxide to aluminum produces CO2 no matter the energy source.
- scotty79 12y ago
  It seems that you can significantly reduce carbon emissions of aluminum smelting if you use energy source that does not emit carbon dioxide. From http://aluminium.org.au/climate-change/smelting-greenhouse-performance http://aluminium.org.au/climate-change/smelting-greenhouse-p... The smelting of aluminium is a very energy intensive process – and over 80 per cent of smelting greenhouse gas emissions are indirect (electricity-related) emissions. The remaining emissions come from direct (on-site) emissions plus the emissions associated with the production of alumina.
  - abalone 12y ago
    That's true but the direct emissions are still very substantial. It only seems small in comparison because smelting uses so much electricity to begin with.
abalone 12y ago
I read the article. Hydroelectric is not free -- to scale up to powering the automotive industry requires more dams with massive ecological impact -- and you left out the part out greenhouse gases and the transportation of heavy batteries over hundreds or thousands of miles per recharge. 1K miles could be easily used up on a couple roundtrips. That's not even 2 roundtrips between SF and LA.

patrickg_zill 12y ago

Aluminum does use a lot of electricity. The first time; that is why recycling aluminum which is cheap, very easy to do, and does not require much power, is such a win.

abalone 12y ago
Are you suggesting "recharging" these batteries happens via recycling? That is not true. Aluminum is converted to alumina via the reaction and they need to be resmelted, just like the first time.