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Anytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., run

by torbit 12y ago

Anytime I see a post about football I wonder how it is different from rugby, so I'll just post this intresting article "In rugby, the only collision (i.e., running at speed for the purpose of forcing a player to the ground) is when one has the ball. The other 29 lads on the pitch are there for support. In American football, 21 of the 22 players had better be colliding with someone on every down - at full speed. In gridiron, there is collision while blocking. In rugby, the equivalent is called "obstruction" and is illegal, thus there are far more opportunities - requirements - for player collision in American football." http://wesclark.com/rrr/pads_and_helmets.html http://wesclark.com/rrr/pads_and_helmets.html

markdown 12y ago
Another factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg: * NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football * There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal. * High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity. * Spear tackles (picking the player up and driving him into the ground head-first) are grounds for a red card.
- girvo 12y ago
  I'm an ex referee, used to ref first grade club and schoolboy rugby in SEQ. I've seen first hand why those rules are in place. I will disagree with having the ball being the only collision points however: rucks, mauls and scrums (the latter of which are neutered now) involved any number of players but still don't quite compare to the one on one that NFL involves. Fascinating sports IMO :)
  - markdown 12y ago
    > the latter of which are neutered now Only if you're talking about Rugby League.
    - girvo 12y ago
      *shrugs. The current laws have definitely changed the feel and reduced the danger when it comes to scrums. I watch a kid taken off the field a paraplegic due to someones foot slipping on "engage", so I don't necessarily disagree with the laws, but you can't argue that they're not in place to slow it down and make it safer.
- bps4484 12y ago
  See my sibling comment to you, markdown. I think the helmet and padding came because of the rules, not the other way around. Also, just an FYI that high tackles (at the head) are also illegal in football. The "head tackle" was made illegal after being popularized by Dick "Night Train" Lane. See this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPm-6ZlTM5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPm-6ZlTM5o, for the savagery of yesteryear.
- tvon 12y ago
  Being a big fan of football I have sometimes wondered what the sport would be like if they slowly phased out the protection. You are taught early on to put your head down and drive your shoulder through the target, but I imagine this would be different if your head and shoulders weren't the most padded parts of your body.
- marknutter 12y ago
  Quick clarification point because other Americans like myself might initially be confused - in the NFL "spearing" is different than "spear tackling" in Rugby, and is actually what you describe in your first bullet point; a tackle where you lead with the head.
slyall 12y ago
The local paper posted an article a few days ago about relative sizes of Rugby players ( The "All Blacks" are the New Zealand national team ) compared to 20+ years ago. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11265872 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&obje...
bps4484 12y ago
I think there is something even more fundamentally different between football and rugby that lead to bigger, head on collisions (and what makes the padding in football a necessity). Specifically, in rugby, the way you maintain possession of the ball is by falling properly with your body in front of the ball (not lunging forward) and making sure your team is around you so you can ruck[1] properly and continue on with the ball. In football, there are 4 attempts to get 10 yards and you want to make sure with each of those chances you absolutely get the most amount of yardage (running backs are taught to always fall forward, defenses are taught to run people over head on, etc) and of course that doesn't even mention the forward pass where there is an incentive to hit a player as hard as you can to "separate the man from the ball" (this is something that is drilled into you as a defensive player). [1] for people who haven't watched rugby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htLUcu-lcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htLUcu-lcs is a video which explains what rucking is. Note how it's not important that you lunge forward for an extra yard. In fact, it's stupid to do so! The defense would allow you to do that, and then just take the ball from you once you're down. This is also just my understanding of rugby having watched it from a distance. If I'm incorrect about my assumptions of the rules I'm happy to be corrected.
- markdown 12y ago
  > If I'm incorrect about my assumptions of the rules I'm happy to be corrected. Nope. Spot on.
- cmpns8 12y ago
  You are essentially correct - rugby is a game of field position and there are enough players on the field that you can simply lateral the ball to the next man before taking a huge hit and play continues. Having played both American football and rugby, I will say the individual collision is more spectacular in football but getting rucked in the head by 3/4" metal spikes is no walk in the park. I was always more sore after a football game but had far more cuts and bruises after a game of rugby.
bane 12y ago
One of the few impact comparisons I've seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o
- tvon 12y ago
  I like to say that there is no science in Sports Science, that said I was impressed with how much force Ray Lewis was able to generate with about a 4' head start in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1CwwsWkQLU&t=5m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1CwwsWkQLU&t=5m42s

by torbit 12y ago

markdown 12y ago

Another factor is the lack of a helmet and padding. Because of this, players are much more careful when tackling. Eg: * NEVER leading with the head, which is quite common in American Football * There must be an attempt to wrap your arms around the player. Not doing so is a shoulder charge, and illegal. * High tackles (above the shoulders) are illegal and can result in yellow or red card depending on severity. * Spear tackles (picking the player up and driving him into the ground head-first) are grounds for a red card.

girvo 12y ago
I'm an ex referee, used to ref first grade club and schoolboy rugby in SEQ. I've seen first hand why those rules are in place. I will disagree with having the ball being the only collision points however: rucks, mauls and scrums (the latter of which are neutered now) involved any number of players but still don't quite compare to the one on one that NFL involves. Fascinating sports IMO :)
- markdown 12y ago
  > the latter of which are neutered now Only if you're talking about Rugby League.
  - girvo 12y ago
    *shrugs. The current laws have definitely changed the feel and reduced the danger when it comes to scrums. I watch a kid taken off the field a paraplegic due to someones foot slipping on "engage", so I don't necessarily disagree with the laws, but you can't argue that they're not in place to slow it down and make it safer.
bps4484 12y ago
See my sibling comment to you, markdown. I think the helmet and padding came because of the rules, not the other way around. Also, just an FYI that high tackles (at the head) are also illegal in football. The "head tackle" was made illegal after being popularized by Dick "Night Train" Lane. See this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPm-6ZlTM5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPm-6ZlTM5o, for the savagery of yesteryear.
tvon 12y ago
Being a big fan of football I have sometimes wondered what the sport would be like if they slowly phased out the protection. You are taught early on to put your head down and drive your shoulder through the target, but I imagine this would be different if your head and shoulders weren't the most padded parts of your body.
marknutter 12y ago
Quick clarification point because other Americans like myself might initially be confused - in the NFL "spearing" is different than "spear tackling" in Rugby, and is actually what you describe in your first bullet point; a tackle where you lead with the head.

slyall 12y ago

The local paper posted an article a few days ago about relative sizes of Rugby players ( The "All Blacks" are the New Zealand national team ) compared to 20+ years ago. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11265872 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&obje...

bps4484 12y ago

I think there is something even more fundamentally different between football and rugby that lead to bigger, head on collisions (and what makes the padding in football a necessity). Specifically, in rugby, the way you maintain possession of the ball is by falling properly with your body in front of the ball (not lunging forward) and making sure your team is around you so you can ruck[1] properly and continue on with the ball. In football, there are 4 attempts to get 10 yards and you want to make sure with each of those chances you absolutely get the most amount of yardage (running backs are taught to always fall forward, defenses are taught to run people over head on, etc) and of course that doesn't even mention the forward pass where there is an incentive to hit a player as hard as you can to "separate the man from the ball" (this is something that is drilled into you as a defensive player). [1] for people who haven't watched rugby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htLUcu-lcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htLUcu-lcs is a video which explains what rucking is. Note how it's not important that you lunge forward for an extra yard. In fact, it's stupid to do so! The defense would allow you to do that, and then just take the ball from you once you're down. This is also just my understanding of rugby having watched it from a distance. If I'm incorrect about my assumptions of the rules I'm happy to be corrected.

markdown 12y ago
> If I'm incorrect about my assumptions of the rules I'm happy to be corrected. Nope. Spot on.
cmpns8 12y ago
You are essentially correct - rugby is a game of field position and there are enough players on the field that you can simply lateral the ball to the next man before taking a huge hit and play continues. Having played both American football and rugby, I will say the individual collision is more spectacular in football but getting rucked in the head by 3/4" metal spikes is no walk in the park. I was always more sore after a football game but had far more cuts and bruises after a game of rugby.

bane 12y ago

One of the few impact comparisons I've seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tGY-VDx3o

tvon 12y ago
I like to say that there is no science in Sports Science, that said I was impressed with how much force Ray Lewis was able to generate with about a 4' head start in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1CwwsWkQLU&t=5m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1CwwsWkQLU&t=5m42s