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From the very first article: "Sgt. Steve Martos said the child's mother was loading her purchases into her car when Jose darted between vehicles and into the d

by skwirl 12y ago

From the very first article: "Sgt. Steve Martos said the child's mother was loading her purchases into her car when Jose darted between vehicles and into the driving lane. The driver did not see the child and ran him over." If she had left the child in the car, this wouldn't have happened. The point isn't that you should always leave your child in the car - the point is that our assessment of risk is terrible, and the risk of leaving a child in a car on a mild weather day has not been proven to be more risky than taking them into the store.

tptacek 12y ago
You cannot leave a four year old alone in a car and trust that they will not get out. Nobody's four year old is trustworthy; they are not biologically capable of being trustworthy at that age. Meanwhile, a four year old escorted through a parking lot with their parent is at least somewhat visible. A four year old alone in a parking lot is invisible.
- skwirl 12y ago
  You can't have your child out of your sight for a single instant without a chance of them getting hurt. When you are asleep they could easily leave the house and get run over in the street. I'm generally a fan of your comments but this time I don't see your point at all.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    And I am not advocating for a parenting strategy that demands total attention to your children 60 minutes out of 24 hours a day. I'm simply saying that one time you can't let a child out of your sight is when they're in a parking lot. Let's make this simpler: would you leave your four year old alone in a parked car for 5 minutes while you ran into a store?
    - notdonspaulding 12y ago
      > would you leave your four year old alone in a parked car for 5 minutes while you ran into a store? Yes. No, not really, but yes if I lived in a different time and day (a time and day I wish we did live in). As another commenter pointed out, the biggest reason many of us don't do this these days is purely the fear of running into ridiculous situations as described in this article. It really seems odd that you're avoiding the biggest data-driven argument that's raised in the article and has already been put directly to you. Namely, why do you assume that it's safer to take the child with you? Parents make tradeoffs regarding safety, risk, convenience, happiness, cost, temperament, health, development, etc. ALL. THE. FREAKING. TIME. It's great that "society" cares about how parents do their jobs. It's not so great that society mandates in great detail how that job should be done. Every parent, every child, every situation, every tradeoff is different. Until it's proven that they're no good at it, let's leave that work to the people who signed up for it.
    - skwirl 12y ago
      No, because of the risk of someone calling the police. And I don't have children and stories like this weigh against any decision to have children. We're to the point of arresting parents for not parenting the way the media wants them to, logic and rational risk assessment be damned. Do you really think you were never left in the car alone as a child? The author was right - the most irresponsible thing she did that day was to drive with her child in the car.
    - aidenn0 12y ago
      I'm a parent of 4 kids, 2 of whom have passed the age of four. I don't recall if it's a law or just a regulation I have to follow as a certified foster parent, but either way I'm not allowed to leave any child under 6 unattended in a car. If it weren't for that rule, then I absolutely would have left one of my kids in a car unattended for 5 minutes, but not the other. The one I would not have got antsy fairly easily. Even they could probably have been trusted for less than 10 minutes, I wouldn't be willing to take that risk. The other, I have no doubt would have stayed in the car for a half-hour. More recently I did leave one of them in the car, in the shade, with the windows cracked on a 65 degree day. She was 7 at the time. Someone did report me to the cops, but I said "She's 7, was in the shade and I was gone for less than 10 minutes" and never heard anything from then again.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        7 is borderline. I wouldn't do it, but you know your 7 year old better than I do, and you know where you parked and I don't. 4 is not borderline. There does not exist anywhere in the world a trustworthy 4 year old.

by skwirl 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

You cannot leave a four year old alone in a car and trust that they will not get out. Nobody's four year old is trustworthy; they are not biologically capable of being trustworthy at that age. Meanwhile, a four year old escorted through a parking lot with their parent is at least somewhat visible. A four year old alone in a parking lot is invisible.

skwirl 12y ago
You can't have your child out of your sight for a single instant without a chance of them getting hurt. When you are asleep they could easily leave the house and get run over in the street. I'm generally a fan of your comments but this time I don't see your point at all.
- tptacek 12y ago
  And I am not advocating for a parenting strategy that demands total attention to your children 60 minutes out of 24 hours a day. I'm simply saying that one time you can't let a child out of your sight is when they're in a parking lot. Let's make this simpler: would you leave your four year old alone in a parked car for 5 minutes while you ran into a store?
  - notdonspaulding 12y ago
    > would you leave your four year old alone in a parked car for 5 minutes while you ran into a store? Yes. No, not really, but yes if I lived in a different time and day (a time and day I wish we did live in). As another commenter pointed out, the biggest reason many of us don't do this these days is purely the fear of running into ridiculous situations as described in this article. It really seems odd that you're avoiding the biggest data-driven argument that's raised in the article and has already been put directly to you. Namely, why do you assume that it's safer to take the child with you? Parents make tradeoffs regarding safety, risk, convenience, happiness, cost, temperament, health, development, etc. ALL. THE. FREAKING. TIME. It's great that "society" cares about how parents do their jobs. It's not so great that society mandates in great detail how that job should be done. Every parent, every child, every situation, every tradeoff is different. Until it's proven that they're no good at it, let's leave that work to the people who signed up for it.
  - skwirl 12y ago
    No, because of the risk of someone calling the police. And I don't have children and stories like this weigh against any decision to have children. We're to the point of arresting parents for not parenting the way the media wants them to, logic and rational risk assessment be damned. Do you really think you were never left in the car alone as a child? The author was right - the most irresponsible thing she did that day was to drive with her child in the car.
  - aidenn0 12y ago
    I'm a parent of 4 kids, 2 of whom have passed the age of four. I don't recall if it's a law or just a regulation I have to follow as a certified foster parent, but either way I'm not allowed to leave any child under 6 unattended in a car. If it weren't for that rule, then I absolutely would have left one of my kids in a car unattended for 5 minutes, but not the other. The one I would not have got antsy fairly easily. Even they could probably have been trusted for less than 10 minutes, I wouldn't be willing to take that risk. The other, I have no doubt would have stayed in the car for a half-hour. More recently I did leave one of them in the car, in the shade, with the windows cracked on a 65 degree day. She was 7 at the time. Someone did report me to the cops, but I said "She's 7, was in the shade and I was gone for less than 10 minutes" and never heard anything from then again.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      7 is borderline. I wouldn't do it, but you know your 7 year old better than I do, and you know where you parked and I don't. 4 is not borderline. There does not exist anywhere in the world a trustworthy 4 year old.