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Reasons not to .. and reasons to to exactly that. The decision is not yours, not ours. It's the parent's. Like everything else about the daily life of the kid.

Reasons not to .. and reasons to to exactly that. The decision is not yours, not ours. It's the parent's. Like everything else about the daily life of the kid. That argument contains no value. Of course there are reasons that one might not do that. Loop/Recur to line 1.

anigbrowl 12y ago
That's not much help for kids who do have abusive or neglectful parents, is it? They're citizens too and if they're stuck in a dangerous situation they're entitled to the same level of protection as any other member of society. there's a middle ground between the state as inflexible guardian and complete parental sovereignty.
- darklajid 12y ago
  Fine. Abused kids need help. There, I said it. It's nothing new and not related to the example at hand, but yeah, we found some common ground. The state has laws and agencies to interfere and check (Disclaimer: I've no clue about the US of A here, but I assume it's not too far off from what I know). But that's not related to the action(s) we discuss. Are we missing a part of the picture? Certainly. Is the partial picture scary? Yes. The adversaries in the story didn't act to protect the kid. They acted in a completely crazy fashion. There's so many things wrong with this story, I cannot even begin to imagine how someone would defend the side of the cops here.. One (out of far too many) questions: If this mother is utterly incapable, if a lawyer actually can make the point that she might lose her kid if she's not complying: Why does it take 10 month to proceed? I'd say that someone with a little ambition can kill a kid in less time than that... There's not One. Single. Point. in that article that makes sense, on the side of law enforcement. Zero. The only potential reason to discuss why this might not be so far removed from reality that everyone involved should be ordered to take a drug test is that the article might be lying. If that is not the case ... there is no case.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    The police didn't act in a crazy fashion at all. They responded to a complaint, collected evidence, checked it against vehicle owner records. Then they visited the owner of the vehicle, gathered some more information. When an arrest warrant was issued (by the court, not by the police) months later, the police telephoned the author of the article to advise her about it and make arrangements for her to come to court. I've said repeatedly that I don't think there was any point in bringing a prosecution. since you don't live in the US maybe you don't appreciate that the police and the public prosecutor are completely separate entities. The police didn't do anything abnormal in this case.
    - mcv 12y ago
      > since you don't live in the US maybe you don't appreciate that the police and the public prosecutor are completely separate entities. I don't live in the US, but I often get the impression that in the US, they're less separate than in other countries.
- mentat 12y ago
  Is this case even remotely discussable as "middle ground"? There was no malice except on the part of the police and the bystander. Your responses to this thread show a deep lack of understanding of practical parenting or human resiliency.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    I fail to see what police malice you're finding. The author of the police doesn't criticize them at all.
    - mentat 12y ago
      That's part of the problem, that they think they deserve to get treated this way by making a sound and considered choice.
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        Get treated what way? You haven't articulated how it is that you think she was mistreated by the police.
DanBC 12y ago
No, society should protect children. As you say calling the police is okay, but the reaction of police is not okay.
mcv 12y ago
There are parents who neglect or abuse their children. It's fortunately rare, but it does mean that children also deserve protection from their parents, when necessary. Leaving a child in a locked car is a bad idea, even when it's totally safe, and even with a window cracked. (In fact, leaving a car window open when you're not there is also a bad idea, though a few minutes probably won't hurt.) Honestly, in that situation, it's better to leave the car door open, so the child can get out when necessary. If you don't trust the child to make that decision, don't leave it alone.

anigbrowl 12y ago

That's not much help for kids who do have abusive or neglectful parents, is it? They're citizens too and if they're stuck in a dangerous situation they're entitled to the same level of protection as any other member of society. there's a middle ground between the state as inflexible guardian and complete parental sovereignty.

darklajid 12y ago
Fine. Abused kids need help. There, I said it. It's nothing new and not related to the example at hand, but yeah, we found some common ground. The state has laws and agencies to interfere and check (Disclaimer: I've no clue about the US of A here, but I assume it's not too far off from what I know). But that's not related to the action(s) we discuss. Are we missing a part of the picture? Certainly. Is the partial picture scary? Yes. The adversaries in the story didn't act to protect the kid. They acted in a completely crazy fashion. There's so many things wrong with this story, I cannot even begin to imagine how someone would defend the side of the cops here.. One (out of far too many) questions: If this mother is utterly incapable, if a lawyer actually can make the point that she might lose her kid if she's not complying: Why does it take 10 month to proceed? I'd say that someone with a little ambition can kill a kid in less time than that... There's not One. Single. Point. in that article that makes sense, on the side of law enforcement. Zero. The only potential reason to discuss why this might not be so far removed from reality that everyone involved should be ordered to take a drug test is that the article might be lying. If that is not the case ... there is no case.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  The police didn't act in a crazy fashion at all. They responded to a complaint, collected evidence, checked it against vehicle owner records. Then they visited the owner of the vehicle, gathered some more information. When an arrest warrant was issued (by the court, not by the police) months later, the police telephoned the author of the article to advise her about it and make arrangements for her to come to court. I've said repeatedly that I don't think there was any point in bringing a prosecution. since you don't live in the US maybe you don't appreciate that the police and the public prosecutor are completely separate entities. The police didn't do anything abnormal in this case.
  - mcv 12y ago
    > since you don't live in the US maybe you don't appreciate that the police and the public prosecutor are completely separate entities. I don't live in the US, but I often get the impression that in the US, they're less separate than in other countries.
mentat 12y ago
Is this case even remotely discussable as "middle ground"? There was no malice except on the part of the police and the bystander. Your responses to this thread show a deep lack of understanding of practical parenting or human resiliency.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  I fail to see what police malice you're finding. The author of the police doesn't criticize them at all.
  - mentat 12y ago
    That's part of the problem, that they think they deserve to get treated this way by making a sound and considered choice.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      Get treated what way? You haven't articulated how it is that you think she was mistreated by the police.

DanBC 12y ago

No, society should protect children. As you say calling the police is okay, but the reaction of police is not okay.

mcv 12y ago

There are parents who neglect or abuse their children. It's fortunately rare, but it does mean that children also deserve protection from their parents, when necessary. Leaving a child in a locked car is a bad idea, even when it's totally safe, and even with a window cracked. (In fact, leaving a car window open when you're not there is also a bad idea, though a few minutes probably won't hurt.) Honestly, in that situation, it's better to leave the car door open, so the child can get out when necessary. If you don't trust the child to make that decision, don't leave it alone.