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Well, of course untrusted code dealing with CC info is insecure. That's why this is open source, and you host it yourself. It's just a library. Whose source you

by benaiah 12y ago

Well, of course untrusted code dealing with CC info is insecure. That's why this is open source, and you host it yourself. It's just a library. Whose source you can see. Whose source you can compile. With a third-party compiler. You'd say you'd trust it if it was from Google - in this case, if you use it, it's coming from you, on your server, under your control. I'd trust this far more than a Google-hosted closed-source library - not because I wouldn't trust a Google payment endpoint, but because this is totally under my control, and something from Google isn't. Not sure what you're talking about with the encoded image. Doesn't make much sense. There are no real security problems with this whatsoever. The problem is, unsavvy users may think there is, due to the visual resemblance of the onscreen card.

shogun21 12y ago
Because it's open source, we can figure out exactly what's going on. OP brings up the point from the users' perspective and they might not trust an interface that looks this flashy.
- deleted 12y ago
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- logicallee 12y ago
  That's a far cry from Make your credit card form better in one line of code and With one line of code.. $('form').card({ container: $('.card-wrapper') }); You get.. Animations for 4 different card types An intuitive experience for your users Pure CSS, HTML, and Javascript (no images) 100% free and open source Which certainly could be used by someone who doesn't understand all this. All I am saying is that for us as developers it is not so simple either. . . we also have to be vigilant.
  - benaiah 12y ago
    If somebody who doesn't know what they're doing is writing a CC form, you've already lost. Making app development easier isn't "dangerous" because it allows less experienced people develop applications. You will always have people making mistakes and screwing up security, regardless of the actual ease of development. The more the developer has to do, the more they can screw up.
    - logicallee 12y ago
      This is what my point is: as much as the customer has to slow down and say, "Wait a second, is this legit?" - so do we. That doesn't mean the customer won't conclude it is legit, or that we don't conclude the same thing. Recall that I had responded to, >Looks gorgeous. I can't help but wonder if people unfamiliar with technology and ecommerce would be deterred by such a form? Certainly I personally would be deterred (to an extent) from using this form without at least a cursory audit and verifying the identity of the person who wrote it. This will naturally be less and less important the more eyeballs this sees. But as a simple tool, perhaps it is not that many. Do remember that if I were wanting to get my hands on people's credit cards, getting developers to use this kind of script while having a well-hidden side channel (perhaps quite well-hidden - it could somehow encode cc details in the timing delays to a different server, potentially, so that it is not at all obvious that the delays even correspond with the data, it could just look like visualizations getting loaded as the person types) -- then this would be one of the more clever ways I could go about doing so. I don't see how we're 'arguing' about this? We need to check what we are using, just like customers need to check that this is legit.
      - benaiah 12y ago
        I don't really understand your point. The thing about timing channels is absurd - we have the code right in front of us. Right there. It either calls third-party servers or it doesn't, and we can see that. Very easily. The idea that anyone would successfully steal CC info by putting up an open-source client-side jQuery plugin under his real name is just silly. It's not something that you ever have to worry about in the real world. Sure, I'll concede that if a number of absurdly unlikely things happened, something like this could steal CC info. Besides, you're missing the point. We're paid to vet this stuff. Customers aren't. Your choice of whether to use this or not harms no one - but customers being scared of an odd-looking CC form is harmful to business, and a valid and interesting point.
        logicallee 12y ago
        we're not disagreeing
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by benaiah 12y ago

shogun21 12y ago

Because it's open source, we can figure out exactly what's going on. OP brings up the point from the users' perspective and they might not trust an interface that looks this flashy.

deleted 12y ago
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logicallee 12y ago
That's a far cry from Make your credit card form better in one line of code and With one line of code.. $('form').card({ container: $('.card-wrapper') }); You get.. Animations for 4 different card types An intuitive experience for your users Pure CSS, HTML, and Javascript (no images) 100% free and open source Which certainly could be used by someone who doesn't understand all this. All I am saying is that for us as developers it is not so simple either. . . we also have to be vigilant.
- benaiah 12y ago
  If somebody who doesn't know what they're doing is writing a CC form, you've already lost. Making app development easier isn't "dangerous" because it allows less experienced people develop applications. You will always have people making mistakes and screwing up security, regardless of the actual ease of development. The more the developer has to do, the more they can screw up.
  - logicallee 12y ago
    This is what my point is: as much as the customer has to slow down and say, "Wait a second, is this legit?" - so do we. That doesn't mean the customer won't conclude it is legit, or that we don't conclude the same thing. Recall that I had responded to, >Looks gorgeous. I can't help but wonder if people unfamiliar with technology and ecommerce would be deterred by such a form? Certainly I personally would be deterred (to an extent) from using this form without at least a cursory audit and verifying the identity of the person who wrote it. This will naturally be less and less important the more eyeballs this sees. But as a simple tool, perhaps it is not that many. Do remember that if I were wanting to get my hands on people's credit cards, getting developers to use this kind of script while having a well-hidden side channel (perhaps quite well-hidden - it could somehow encode cc details in the timing delays to a different server, potentially, so that it is not at all obvious that the delays even correspond with the data, it could just look like visualizations getting loaded as the person types) -- then this would be one of the more clever ways I could go about doing so. I don't see how we're 'arguing' about this? We need to check what we are using, just like customers need to check that this is legit.
    - benaiah 12y ago
      I don't really understand your point. The thing about timing channels is absurd - we have the code right in front of us. Right there. It either calls third-party servers or it doesn't, and we can see that. Very easily. The idea that anyone would successfully steal CC info by putting up an open-source client-side jQuery plugin under his real name is just silly. It's not something that you ever have to worry about in the real world. Sure, I'll concede that if a number of absurdly unlikely things happened, something like this could steal CC info. Besides, you're missing the point. We're paid to vet this stuff. Customers aren't. Your choice of whether to use this or not harms no one - but customers being scared of an odd-looking CC form is harmful to business, and a valid and interesting point.
      - logicallee 12y ago
        we're not disagreeing

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