5 ms·

"Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device’s manufac

"Recently, the Tallahassee police department revealed it had used stingrays at least 200 times since 2010 without telling any judge because the device’s manufacturer made the police department sign a non-disclosure agreement that police claim prevented them from disclosing use of the device to the courts." So just by signing an NDA, I'm not obligated to disclose information to the court?

charonn0 12y ago
That one bothers me too. Just like I can't sign away my obligation not to commit a crime, they can't sign away their obligation to uphold the law.
javajosh 12y ago
Imagine if this worked for handgun manufacturers. "I'm sorry, but I can't say if I shot him or not; the use of my gun is covered by an NDA with the manufacturer."
- hga 12y ago
  A better analogy would be traces. They're almost never even theoretically useful, because they terminate with the being gun stolen or sold in a way that can't be traced, but they start with asking the manufacturer which distributor bought the gun, which leads to the gun store, where the ATF Form 4473 tells you who bought it at the retail level. If manufacturers forced distributors and gun stores to sign NDAs ... well, we know how that vs. the clear laws and regulations on the books would resolve. Somehow these other Constitutionally enumerated rights seem to be getting about as much respect as the 2nd Amendment does....
DannyBee 12y ago
You actually are, and in fact, the convictions have started to be reversed as a result of this ... Good thing an NDA caused rapists/etc to go free!
- jacquesm 12y ago
  > Good thing an NDA caused rapists/etc to go free! No, good thing illegal behaviour by police departments was identified and rightly led to overturning the convictions resulting from that behaviour. Whether the perps were murderers, pot smokers or speeders (or innocents...) does not matter.
  - whyenot 12y ago
    > Whether the perps were murderers, pot smokers or speeders (or innocents...) does not matter. You might not agree if you were the victim or the victim's friends/family. The evidence might have been illegally gathered, but it was also pretty damming. I absolutely agree with what the ACLU is doing, but there is still a victim and they will likely never see justice. It's a real failing of the US justice system, and not something I'm personally comfortable in celebrating.
    - gknoy 12y ago
      I woudl be very upset if someone who hurt my ${loved one} went free because of the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine. However, I like to believe that I'd be directing my anger at the organization that decided to use bad techniques to get evidence, rather than at the law that protects all of us from such behavior.
    - venomsnake 12y ago
      Well put the cops and prosecutors in jail - they are the reason the perps go free.
      - whyenot 12y ago
        That doesn't help the victim. I expect a significant number of people would characterize what the police did as bending the rules a little to catch a rapist on the loose. Many -- including me! aren't going to agree with that, but it is a legitimate point of view, and it does explain why police are very rarely sanctioned for actions like this.
sergiotapia 12y ago
That's something straight out of Robocop, I shudder to see where we're heading.
jbattle 12y ago
this makes me sick, and in any other context I can't imagine how it would stand up.

charonn0 12y ago

That one bothers me too. Just like I can't sign away my obligation not to commit a crime, they can't sign away their obligation to uphold the law.

javajosh 12y ago

Imagine if this worked for handgun manufacturers. "I'm sorry, but I can't say if I shot him or not; the use of my gun is covered by an NDA with the manufacturer."

hga 12y ago
A better analogy would be traces. They're almost never even theoretically useful, because they terminate with the being gun stolen or sold in a way that can't be traced, but they start with asking the manufacturer which distributor bought the gun, which leads to the gun store, where the ATF Form 4473 tells you who bought it at the retail level. If manufacturers forced distributors and gun stores to sign NDAs ... well, we know how that vs. the clear laws and regulations on the books would resolve. Somehow these other Constitutionally enumerated rights seem to be getting about as much respect as the 2nd Amendment does....

DannyBee 12y ago

You actually are, and in fact, the convictions have started to be reversed as a result of this ... Good thing an NDA caused rapists/etc to go free!

jacquesm 12y ago
> Good thing an NDA caused rapists/etc to go free! No, good thing illegal behaviour by police departments was identified and rightly led to overturning the convictions resulting from that behaviour. Whether the perps were murderers, pot smokers or speeders (or innocents...) does not matter.
- whyenot 12y ago
  > Whether the perps were murderers, pot smokers or speeders (or innocents...) does not matter. You might not agree if you were the victim or the victim's friends/family. The evidence might have been illegally gathered, but it was also pretty damming. I absolutely agree with what the ACLU is doing, but there is still a victim and they will likely never see justice. It's a real failing of the US justice system, and not something I'm personally comfortable in celebrating.
  - gknoy 12y ago
    I woudl be very upset if someone who hurt my ${loved one} went free because of the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine. However, I like to believe that I'd be directing my anger at the organization that decided to use bad techniques to get evidence, rather than at the law that protects all of us from such behavior.
  - venomsnake 12y ago
    Well put the cops and prosecutors in jail - they are the reason the perps go free.
    - whyenot 12y ago
      That doesn't help the victim. I expect a significant number of people would characterize what the police did as bending the rules a little to catch a rapist on the loose. Many -- including me! aren't going to agree with that, but it is a legitimate point of view, and it does explain why police are very rarely sanctioned for actions like this.

sergiotapia 12y ago

That's something straight out of Robocop, I shudder to see where we're heading.

jbattle 12y ago

this makes me sick, and in any other context I can't imagine how it would stand up.