5 ms·

PatentHackers – A new platform to help companies kill patent trolls

61 points by jamesshen 12y ago

jimiwen 12y ago
Let’s help Life360 fight back. http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/23/patent-trolls-have-come-after-my-startup-im-fighting-back/ http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/23/patent-trolls-have-come-af...
yiting1128 12y ago
Patent hackers, huh? I think I like it.
- jimiwen 12y ago
  There are plenty of bugs in a patent. Each patent examiner only has 10-20 to "examine" a patent application, many bad and "dangerous" patents get granted. I think using a hacker's approach can weed out bad patents like bugs!!
curated22 12y ago
Community based (even ones centered around IP..not necessarily geographically based) things always fascinate me and get me giddy. Plus...the idea is brilliant. It might not cater to the general public (like quirky does) but that's ok. Doesn't need to . It caters to those people with a love of data and understanding and want to be apart of something (and maybe make some $$).
AOP666 12y ago
The fact that quests from all over the world are collected and placed at one place makes it easier (not to mention, a lot more interesting) for prior art treasure hunters like me to participate in.
rickbrown 12y ago
Great Post...
jamesshen 12y ago
To Life360:(If you see this) Dear sir, we are here to help you. We understand how painful it is, and we believe that "Mr. Piece of Sh*t" should striped off all his bogus patents. We leverage expert crowd(2000+,growing) from all around the world to find "bugs" in Mr. Malcom Beyer's patents.
akurilin 12y ago
Here's the real question though: does knowing that there exists prior art to a certain patent in question at all change the need to go through a painfully lengthy and exorbitantly expensive legal process to prove that one's innocent? Or does this still require a company to be as well capitalized as Newegg in order to be able to withstand a patent attack, and thus doesn't really matter for the majority of us?
- josaka 12y ago
  Even with dead on prior art, you're still out of pocket $500k to $1.5 million in legal fees before you can kill the patent in court, which is why cost-of-litigation settlements are common. Newer procedures (begun last year) are killing patents at the USPTO with a high success rate for in the range of $100k to 300k.
  - jimiwen 12y ago
    hi josaka, yeh i think the new procedures (IPR, CBM) relatively increases prior art research emphasis. Do you think high success rate has a pre-selected bias? i.e. stakeholders only apply higher confidence oppositions to the USPTO?
- Kliment 12y ago
  When a patent application is in its larval stage, 6 months after initial publication, at least in the US it can be murdered by prior art submitted by anyone, online, for free. A number of open source hardware and software communities I try to keep up with are now under direct threat of patents, and a centralized place where we could get a simple listing of patent app link, time until vulnerability period is over, and possibly a forum to discuss possible directions of prior art and coordinate submission would be extremely helpful. That way, it's possible to eradicate the assheaded attempts to restrict ideas before they become enforceable by law. For an already issued patent, I understand it's worth trying to put the trial on hold while it gets re-examined. A reexamination is generally much cheaper than a patent trial.
  - jimiwen 12y ago
sbisker 12y ago
I don't get it - why does the page keep calling me Bob?
- jamesshen 12y ago
  Cuz our company is called "MobiusBobs" Bob is the most commonly used placeholder name in CS...
  - curiouscats 12y ago
    It would help if you have a short synopsis of what this is - for example if I want to share with others (like an about page). And if I could copy the text, it seems it is coded in a way that text isn't copyable which is lame (in my opinion). These mistakes are not uncommon. I often get the feeling in those cases that such pedestrian concerns are beneath the coolness of what we are doing. That is the impression I get (even if it is wrong). It feels to me like the Flash enthusiasts 10+ years ago, for example, making lots of restaurant sites that were highly unusable but looked pretty. I think, making it very easy for people to share info about worthwhile efforts is a good idea. I do really hope you all can make this a success. It seems to me to be a potentially very worthwhile effort.
    - jamesshen 12y ago
      Thanks for the encouragement and feedback, we will try to update our site to make it more easily sharable.
    - na85 12y ago
      >It feels to me like the Flash enthusiasts 10+ years ago, for example, making lots of restaurant sites that were highly unusable but looked pretty IMO we've come full circle back to this "form over function" with every site requiring multiple js libraries. Whatever happened to good ol' static html with some CSS?
- NAFV_P 12y ago
  That made me a bit paranoid at first, since my name is Robert.
SkyMarshal 12y ago
Great idea. Also fwiw, kudos to Peer2Patent and AskPatents. Good to see more sites like this, organizing the world to fight trolls. [1]:http://www.peertopatent.org/ http://www.peertopatent.org/ [2]:http://patents.stackexchange.com/ http://patents.stackexchange.com/
- jamesshen 12y ago
  Thanks, we hope build strong community in the whole eco-system to fight trolls/bad-patent.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Hi James, ff 29 hides the quest list button on the top right when you try to click on it so nothing happens. The same on other pages with the menu on the left, clicking it does not work. Typo: 'all quest[s]' 'my quest[s]' 'All payments will be sent directly to the PayPal account that we will fu[r]ther inquire' (in fact that whole sentence doesn't parse)
    - jamesshen 12y ago
      Hi jacquesm, what is "ff29"? Yeah These feature we're still working that, should be working soon:) Wow I should check those words spelling...thank you!!!!
      - jacquesm 12y ago
        You're welcome, ff 29 -> FireFox 29
- quote 12y ago
  Also http://www.bluepatent.com/en http://www.bluepatent.com/en
jacquesm 12y ago
This is a great effort. I help companies defend themselves from lawsuits involving nonsense patents regarding the stuff that I happen to know a bit about. One thing that might be done to help concentrate the effort where it has the most effect is to find out about the actual lawsuits filed by the trolls and then to prioritize those. It's great to go after all patents filed by some troll, and that needs doing, but for the parties that are being sued by trolls specific action on specific patents would be far more beneficial. Most of the patents litigated today were filed quite a while ago and if we don't concentrate on finding the prior art that might help a party sued under those particular patents it might well get lost. So concentrate on the patents that are actively litigated first, then concentrate on the patents that can still be easily squashed and then work from the oldest to the newest. I realize that's a tall order but this is imo the best way to prioritize this kind of work. The main reason for the prioritization like this is that patents are filed in a system that does not forget, prior art is not filed in a central place and even stuff that happened less than two decades ago can be almost impossible to locate any proof of that will stand up in court. So older stuff should get priority. Incidentally, Joao Controls is still on the warpath with their bogus live video patents.
marcd 12y ago
nice concept :) btw the scrollbar on chrome (current/35.0.1916.114m) is missing 0_o
chrisBob 12y ago
Being able to right click and open different offerings in new tabs would make me much more likely to look around. Needing to click on one, and then back out and select the next slows down my workflow and makes me more likely to give up and move on to another similar site. I really like the idea of the rewards though. Someone willing to spend some time on the research could stay in business with this.
TheRealPomax 12y ago
needs a spell check though, there's quite a bit of copy that has spelling or grammar mistakes, or missing words.

61 points by jamesshen 12y ago

Let’s help Life360 fight back. http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/23/patent-trolls-have-come-after-my-startup-im-fighting-back/ http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/23/patent-trolls-have-come-af...

yiting1128 12y ago

Patent hackers, huh? I think I like it.

jimiwen 12y ago
There are plenty of bugs in a patent. Each patent examiner only has 10-20 to "examine" a patent application, many bad and "dangerous" patents get granted. I think using a hacker's approach can weed out bad patents like bugs!!

curated22 12y ago

Community based (even ones centered around IP..not necessarily geographically based) things always fascinate me and get me giddy. Plus...the idea is brilliant. It might not cater to the general public (like quirky does) but that's ok. Doesn't need to . It caters to those people with a love of data and understanding and want to be apart of something (and maybe make some $$).

AOP666 12y ago

The fact that quests from all over the world are collected and placed at one place makes it easier (not to mention, a lot more interesting) for prior art treasure hunters like me to participate in.

rickbrown 12y ago

Great Post...

jamesshen 12y ago

To Life360:(If you see this) Dear sir, we are here to help you. We understand how painful it is, and we believe that "Mr. Piece of Sh*t" should striped off all his bogus patents. We leverage expert crowd(2000+,growing) from all around the world to find "bugs" in Mr. Malcom Beyer's patents.

akurilin 12y ago

Here's the real question though: does knowing that there exists prior art to a certain patent in question at all change the need to go through a painfully lengthy and exorbitantly expensive legal process to prove that one's innocent? Or does this still require a company to be as well capitalized as Newegg in order to be able to withstand a patent attack, and thus doesn't really matter for the majority of us?

josaka 12y ago
Even with dead on prior art, you're still out of pocket $500k to $1.5 million in legal fees before you can kill the patent in court, which is why cost-of-litigation settlements are common. Newer procedures (begun last year) are killing patents at the USPTO with a high success rate for in the range of $100k to 300k.
- jimiwen 12y ago
  hi josaka, yeh i think the new procedures (IPR, CBM) relatively increases prior art research emphasis. Do you think high success rate has a pre-selected bias? i.e. stakeholders only apply higher confidence oppositions to the USPTO?
Kliment 12y ago
When a patent application is in its larval stage, 6 months after initial publication, at least in the US it can be murdered by prior art submitted by anyone, online, for free. A number of open source hardware and software communities I try to keep up with are now under direct threat of patents, and a centralized place where we could get a simple listing of patent app link, time until vulnerability period is over, and possibly a forum to discuss possible directions of prior art and coordinate submission would be extremely helpful. That way, it's possible to eradicate the assheaded attempts to restrict ideas before they become enforceable by law. For an already issued patent, I understand it's worth trying to put the trial on hold while it gets re-examined. A reexamination is generally much cheaper than a patent trial.
- jimiwen 12y ago

sbisker 12y ago

I don't get it - why does the page keep calling me Bob?

jamesshen 12y ago
Cuz our company is called "MobiusBobs" Bob is the most commonly used placeholder name in CS...
- curiouscats 12y ago
  It would help if you have a short synopsis of what this is - for example if I want to share with others (like an about page). And if I could copy the text, it seems it is coded in a way that text isn't copyable which is lame (in my opinion). These mistakes are not uncommon. I often get the feeling in those cases that such pedestrian concerns are beneath the coolness of what we are doing. That is the impression I get (even if it is wrong). It feels to me like the Flash enthusiasts 10+ years ago, for example, making lots of restaurant sites that were highly unusable but looked pretty. I think, making it very easy for people to share info about worthwhile efforts is a good idea. I do really hope you all can make this a success. It seems to me to be a potentially very worthwhile effort.
  - jamesshen 12y ago
    Thanks for the encouragement and feedback, we will try to update our site to make it more easily sharable.
  - na85 12y ago
    >It feels to me like the Flash enthusiasts 10+ years ago, for example, making lots of restaurant sites that were highly unusable but looked pretty IMO we've come full circle back to this "form over function" with every site requiring multiple js libraries. Whatever happened to good ol' static html with some CSS?
NAFV_P 12y ago
That made me a bit paranoid at first, since my name is Robert.

SkyMarshal 12y ago

Great idea. Also fwiw, kudos to Peer2Patent and AskPatents. Good to see more sites like this, organizing the world to fight trolls. [1]:http://www.peertopatent.org/ http://www.peertopatent.org/ [2]:http://patents.stackexchange.com/ http://patents.stackexchange.com/

jamesshen 12y ago
Thanks, we hope build strong community in the whole eco-system to fight trolls/bad-patent.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Hi James, ff 29 hides the quest list button on the top right when you try to click on it so nothing happens. The same on other pages with the menu on the left, clicking it does not work. Typo: 'all quest[s]' 'my quest[s]' 'All payments will be sent directly to the PayPal account that we will fu[r]ther inquire' (in fact that whole sentence doesn't parse)
  - jamesshen 12y ago
    Hi jacquesm, what is "ff29"? Yeah These feature we're still working that, should be working soon:) Wow I should check those words spelling...thank you!!!!
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      You're welcome, ff 29 -> FireFox 29
quote 12y ago
Also http://www.bluepatent.com/en http://www.bluepatent.com/en

jacquesm 12y ago

This is a great effort. I help companies defend themselves from lawsuits involving nonsense patents regarding the stuff that I happen to know a bit about. One thing that might be done to help concentrate the effort where it has the most effect is to find out about the actual lawsuits filed by the trolls and then to prioritize those. It's great to go after all patents filed by some troll, and that needs doing, but for the parties that are being sued by trolls specific action on specific patents would be far more beneficial. Most of the patents litigated today were filed quite a while ago and if we don't concentrate on finding the prior art that might help a party sued under those particular patents it might well get lost. So concentrate on the patents that are actively litigated first, then concentrate on the patents that can still be easily squashed and then work from the oldest to the newest. I realize that's a tall order but this is imo the best way to prioritize this kind of work. The main reason for the prioritization like this is that patents are filed in a system that does not forget, prior art is not filed in a central place and even stuff that happened less than two decades ago can be almost impossible to locate any proof of that will stand up in court. So older stuff should get priority. Incidentally, Joao Controls is still on the warpath with their bogus live video patents.

marcd 12y ago

nice concept :) btw the scrollbar on chrome (current/35.0.1916.114m) is missing 0_o

chrisBob 12y ago

Being able to right click and open different offerings in new tabs would make me much more likely to look around. Needing to click on one, and then back out and select the next slows down my workflow and makes me more likely to give up and move on to another similar site. I really like the idea of the rewards though. Someone willing to spend some time on the research could stay in business with this.

TheRealPomax 12y ago

needs a spell check though, there's quite a bit of copy that has spelling or grammar mistakes, or missing words.