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The problem with India is that even highly educated, otherwise rational people put their thinking mind aside and give in to superstition. Consider Dr. Radhakri

The problem with India is that even highly educated, otherwise rational people put their thinking mind aside and give in to superstition. Consider Dr. Radhakrishnan, the head of ISRO (Indian space research org.) - Before every rocket that ISRO launches, he visits Tirupati, a holy site in India to pray for its success. Now, I realize this is far cry from people drinking sewage water, but if the head of the Indian space program is this superstitious, what can you say about the rest of the country?

sremani 12y ago
Being religious is not superstition. The serenity prayer nicely puts things in perspective - there are many things beyond human control that can cause failure - if going to Tirupathi gets him in the zone all the power to him.
- bane 12y ago
  Religion is by definition superstition. It just depends on how okay you are with superstitious beliefs. Sometimes you can get benefit from them courage or art or motivation to live a better life, sometimes they muddle your critical thinking skills and do a sloppy job solving problems because you believe some higher power will take care of the details. "Being outside the realm of human control and understanding" is not what superstition means.
  - enscr 12y ago
    > Religion is by definition superstition For some, Religion encompasses superstition, but it goes beyond that. For others, Religion is "Dharma" [1]. It's a way of life / discipline. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
    - bane 12y ago
      Dharma is also a superstition. People put too much negative weight on the term superstition. Dharma is a way of life driven by one of some set of superstition beliefs. If you doubt this, ask a series of "why?" questions about Dharma and drill down into it until you stop hitting rational thought and start hitting belief about the nature of the universe and belief about the importance of righteous action.
      - enscr 12y ago
        You are blurring the distinction to drive home your point. The fact is, superstition carries a negative connotation. Discipline does not.
        bane 12y ago
        It doesn't really matter though, Dharma is still a superstition. So is not changing socks when your baseball team is in the championships. Trying to parse it from other superstitions doesn't change the meaning or existence of the word, nor the fact that it's still classified under that category.
        enscr 12y ago
        Speaking for myself, religion/dharma is not hurting others and being honest. It's not based on superstition, it just makes me feel happy. Happy is healthy. Point being, the meaning of these terms are too broad to tag & generalize them with a few words.
- mikeash 12y ago
  The only difference between religion and superstition is societal acceptance. I'm all for a "live and let live" approach for any religious belief or superstition that doesn't hurt people. I don't think this behavior by Dr. Radhakrishnan is worth any criticism (and plenty of other countries have ingrained rituals). But I don't like these distinctions we try to draw to legitimize religion over stuff that religion doesn't like but which outwardly appears to be the same.
- primelens 12y ago
  Yes, it is. In certain cases it might be harmless superstition unlike the kind of militant superstition that prompts people to oppress others, but superstition it is.
  - briantakita 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition > Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality But then the influenced people become the causality of their actions. These root "superstitious" influences would then exist in concept and have a real effect. Note that conceptual existence is enough to influence intelligent beings who can recognize these concepts. There's also effects that aren't explained by science, yet. That is a playground for all sorts of possibilities.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- konstruktor 12y ago
  The serenity prayer has a rational and a religious aspect. The rational one is discerning between the things that are in our power and those that aren't, and concern ourselves only with the former. This idea can be found in Stoicism [1] and other ancient philosophies, 2000 years earlier than the serenity prayer. Not just the ideas, mind you, but practical techniques of how to achieve this as a mere mortal. The religious one is resignation: Instead of being confident that it is possible to do the things mentioned in the prayer using your ability to learn and think, the praying person begs a divine being for those things. So you are seriously saying that going to pray for a successful rocket launch is an empowering strategy? [1] http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
enupten 12y ago
Superstitions which do no harm anyone are not something to be looked down upon (as silly as they may be). Niels Bohr had a Horseshoe on his door. It's called the Pascal wager. The issue is about loonies going after people for "insulting" their beliefs. Now I do completely agree with you that India has a great deal many loonies (like every other country); the trouble with India though is that the Police and the Judiciary (to a lesser extent, perhaps) are completely ineffective and are more or less beholden to fetid politcs.
- Nursie 12y ago
  Pascals wager is an extremely flawed argument. It boils down to the idea that whether there is a god or not, you may as well believe because if it turns out that if there is a god you win infinite reward, and if there's not then what's the loss? However it presupposes that the Christian ideal of a god holds true, one that will reward you for belief and not reward you (or punish you for disbelief). There is a multidimensional spectrum of other options available. What if there is a god but (s)he created a mechanistic universe deliberately left behind no evidence, and so rewards those that use their critical thinking and form no belief? What if there's a benevolent god that rewards everyone regardless? What if you picked the wrong god and the real one hates wrong-believers more than atheists? So it really only works in a situation where you have a binary choice, and that doesn't model the reality. In other words it's an exercise in apologetics written by someone who had already decided to believe, based on other criteria (or no criteria), trying to persuade others through a pseudo-rational argument. I don't mean any of this as an attack on you, or as justification to look down on others' beliefs, but Pascal's Wager kinda grinds my gears :)
  - npinguy 12y ago
    While I agree with your argument, it doesn't really apply to Niels Bohr's horseshoe. The cost of having a horseshoe over your door is zero, and if there is any negligible impact of it's positive luck, it's a worthy wager.
    - ElongatedTowel 12y ago
briantakita 12y ago
> if the head of the Indian space program is this superstitious, what can you say about the rest of the country? There are physiological, psychological, & emotional benefits to meditation & prayer. There are also benefits to setting intention.
Shivetya 12y ago
It is not confined to just India, just saying. People will believe the most amazing things and mostly because they think they are too smart to be wrong, fooled, etc.
- danielweber 12y ago
  James Randi says the PhDs are easiest to deceive. Not only are they unaccustomed to being outsmarted, but they have a lot of personal identity caught up in not being misled. (Also in politics, where more education is correlated with more partisan viewpoints.)
  - scotty79 12y ago
    I remember him (or someone similar) saying that scientists are easiesy to fool because they are generally honest people. It takes a cheat to catch a cheat.
- frandroid 12y ago
  There were some pretty religious people taking part in the Manhattan project...
mathattack 12y ago
Is it belief, or a nod to custom?
q2 12y ago
Do not be so much faithful and confident on only science/technology/human intelligence/effort ...etc. Science is like a light which shows/highlights/brings out the already existing stuff. This does not mean that science created them, though latter discoveries depend on previous ones. They are there in nature before fundamentally and science pointed out to humanity. Technology/engineering works on science's output to create products/services for humanity. Going by this logic, science and technology and human effort/intelligence are just harnessing/working on fundamental entities existed before. So there exists an entity/constellation of entities which we call God which constantly churns out the activity which we all consume under various names,modify with intelligence/effort to suit our needs. So there is nothing wrong in visiting temple/God who is basis for everything. Why rational people should not believe in God and should not have beliefs? May be he has enough proof for the capabilities. Just because you do not have proof and just because that proof is not hyped/advertised, it does not mean that it does not exist.In Hindu Dharma, God is personal in the sense that each one connects to him in their own way unlike/in addition to monolithic set patterns visible to all. Even Bhagavad Gita is based on rational discussion (Q&A), though it is spiritual too. One personal comment: Based on the above comment, you appear young. I suggest you periodically to look inwards and read books in your language. EDIT/APPEND: Unfortunately, there are various people/groups who mislead people on the subject of God. Some of them are/can be delusions. So you need to be careful but honest efforts on your own to connect to him/her (Hinduism is plural) can/may be possible.
- josephschmoe 12y ago
  >One personal comment: Based on the above comment, you appear young. I suggest you periodically to look inwards and read books in your language. This sounds very condescending...
  - q2 12y ago
    No it is not. I saw the profile of the person and based on that, this advice is ok, since we both appear from same country.
    - 12y ago
ghostDancer 12y ago
If i recall correctly , astronauts at Baikonur, follow a lot of traditions before their launch, planting a tree, watching a specific movie, visiting Gagarin's place , every time and more or less there are other "habits" like those for the astronauts in USA, and even the famous peanuts for unmanned vehicles. So maybe it's a mix of tradition and superstition.
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  Don't forget the Orthodox priests blessing them with holy water.
throwawaykf05 12y ago
It's not just Indian space scientists: https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+superstitions https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+superstitions I guess when faced with very high risk situations, people will do whatever helps deal with the pressure, no matter how illogical.
tn13 12y ago
There is nothing wrong in following traditions or coming up with new traditions which are totally irrational. I am an hardcore atheist but I visit temples, perform puja and chant mantras. There is nothing to be apologetic about it. A lot of negative propaganda against Hindu traditions is driven by left liberals who view Hinduism and Paganic beliefs as evil.
mkartic 12y ago
Going to Tirupathi is a pilgrimage. Its misrepresenting religion. Faith by itself isn't irrational. You're putting 'Going to Tirupathi' and 'Not cutting your hair on Tuesdays' in the same bucket. This will only hinder progress in dispelling actual superstitions. Categorizing all religion as superstition seems to be some sort of atheist superiority complex. (I'm an atheist too, btw.)
liquidwax 12y ago
There are two sides to this coin. What it probably means: He gave his 100%. So, the prayer is hope that whatever isn't in his control favours ISRO. What it mostly represents: Pray to God that things work out despite what ever vague amount of effort that might have been put in to the task.

sremani 12y ago

Being religious is not superstition. The serenity prayer nicely puts things in perspective - there are many things beyond human control that can cause failure - if going to Tirupathi gets him in the zone all the power to him.

bane 12y ago
Religion is by definition superstition. It just depends on how okay you are with superstitious beliefs. Sometimes you can get benefit from them courage or art or motivation to live a better life, sometimes they muddle your critical thinking skills and do a sloppy job solving problems because you believe some higher power will take care of the details. "Being outside the realm of human control and understanding" is not what superstition means.
- enscr 12y ago
  > Religion is by definition superstition For some, Religion encompasses superstition, but it goes beyond that. For others, Religion is "Dharma" [1]. It's a way of life / discipline. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
  - bane 12y ago
    Dharma is also a superstition. People put too much negative weight on the term superstition. Dharma is a way of life driven by one of some set of superstition beliefs. If you doubt this, ask a series of "why?" questions about Dharma and drill down into it until you stop hitting rational thought and start hitting belief about the nature of the universe and belief about the importance of righteous action.
    - enscr 12y ago
      You are blurring the distinction to drive home your point. The fact is, superstition carries a negative connotation. Discipline does not.
      - bane 12y ago
        It doesn't really matter though, Dharma is still a superstition. So is not changing socks when your baseball team is in the championships. Trying to parse it from other superstitions doesn't change the meaning or existence of the word, nor the fact that it's still classified under that category.
        enscr 12y ago
        Speaking for myself, religion/dharma is not hurting others and being honest. It's not based on superstition, it just makes me feel happy. Happy is healthy. Point being, the meaning of these terms are too broad to tag & generalize them with a few words.
mikeash 12y ago
The only difference between religion and superstition is societal acceptance. I'm all for a "live and let live" approach for any religious belief or superstition that doesn't hurt people. I don't think this behavior by Dr. Radhakrishnan is worth any criticism (and plenty of other countries have ingrained rituals). But I don't like these distinctions we try to draw to legitimize religion over stuff that religion doesn't like but which outwardly appears to be the same.
primelens 12y ago
Yes, it is. In certain cases it might be harmless superstition unlike the kind of militant superstition that prompts people to oppress others, but superstition it is.
- briantakita 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition > Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality But then the influenced people become the causality of their actions. These root "superstitious" influences would then exist in concept and have a real effect. Note that conceptual existence is enough to influence intelligent beings who can recognize these concepts. There's also effects that aren't explained by science, yet. That is a playground for all sorts of possibilities.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
konstruktor 12y ago
The serenity prayer has a rational and a religious aspect. The rational one is discerning between the things that are in our power and those that aren't, and concern ourselves only with the former. This idea can be found in Stoicism [1] and other ancient philosophies, 2000 years earlier than the serenity prayer. Not just the ideas, mind you, but practical techniques of how to achieve this as a mere mortal. The religious one is resignation: Instead of being confident that it is possible to do the things mentioned in the prayer using your ability to learn and think, the praying person begs a divine being for those things. So you are seriously saying that going to pray for a successful rocket launch is an empowering strategy? [1] http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

enupten 12y ago

Superstitions which do no harm anyone are not something to be looked down upon (as silly as they may be). Niels Bohr had a Horseshoe on his door. It's called the Pascal wager. The issue is about loonies going after people for "insulting" their beliefs. Now I do completely agree with you that India has a great deal many loonies (like every other country); the trouble with India though is that the Police and the Judiciary (to a lesser extent, perhaps) are completely ineffective and are more or less beholden to fetid politcs.

Nursie 12y ago
Pascals wager is an extremely flawed argument. It boils down to the idea that whether there is a god or not, you may as well believe because if it turns out that if there is a god you win infinite reward, and if there's not then what's the loss? However it presupposes that the Christian ideal of a god holds true, one that will reward you for belief and not reward you (or punish you for disbelief). There is a multidimensional spectrum of other options available. What if there is a god but (s)he created a mechanistic universe deliberately left behind no evidence, and so rewards those that use their critical thinking and form no belief? What if there's a benevolent god that rewards everyone regardless? What if you picked the wrong god and the real one hates wrong-believers more than atheists? So it really only works in a situation where you have a binary choice, and that doesn't model the reality. In other words it's an exercise in apologetics written by someone who had already decided to believe, based on other criteria (or no criteria), trying to persuade others through a pseudo-rational argument. I don't mean any of this as an attack on you, or as justification to look down on others' beliefs, but Pascal's Wager kinda grinds my gears :)
- npinguy 12y ago
  While I agree with your argument, it doesn't really apply to Niels Bohr's horseshoe. The cost of having a horseshoe over your door is zero, and if there is any negligible impact of it's positive luck, it's a worthy wager.
  - ElongatedTowel 12y ago

briantakita 12y ago

> if the head of the Indian space program is this superstitious, what can you say about the rest of the country? There are physiological, psychological, & emotional benefits to meditation & prayer. There are also benefits to setting intention.

Shivetya 12y ago

It is not confined to just India, just saying. People will believe the most amazing things and mostly because they think they are too smart to be wrong, fooled, etc.

danielweber 12y ago
James Randi says the PhDs are easiest to deceive. Not only are they unaccustomed to being outsmarted, but they have a lot of personal identity caught up in not being misled. (Also in politics, where more education is correlated with more partisan viewpoints.)
- scotty79 12y ago
  I remember him (or someone similar) saying that scientists are easiesy to fool because they are generally honest people. It takes a cheat to catch a cheat.
frandroid 12y ago
There were some pretty religious people taking part in the Manhattan project...

mathattack 12y ago

Is it belief, or a nod to custom?

q2 12y ago

Do not be so much faithful and confident on only science/technology/human intelligence/effort ...etc. Science is like a light which shows/highlights/brings out the already existing stuff. This does not mean that science created them, though latter discoveries depend on previous ones. They are there in nature before fundamentally and science pointed out to humanity. Technology/engineering works on science's output to create products/services for humanity. Going by this logic, science and technology and human effort/intelligence are just harnessing/working on fundamental entities existed before. So there exists an entity/constellation of entities which we call God which constantly churns out the activity which we all consume under various names,modify with intelligence/effort to suit our needs. So there is nothing wrong in visiting temple/God who is basis for everything. Why rational people should not believe in God and should not have beliefs? May be he has enough proof for the capabilities. Just because you do not have proof and just because that proof is not hyped/advertised, it does not mean that it does not exist.In Hindu Dharma, God is personal in the sense that each one connects to him in their own way unlike/in addition to monolithic set patterns visible to all. Even Bhagavad Gita is based on rational discussion (Q&A), though it is spiritual too. One personal comment: Based on the above comment, you appear young. I suggest you periodically to look inwards and read books in your language. EDIT/APPEND: Unfortunately, there are various people/groups who mislead people on the subject of God. Some of them are/can be delusions. So you need to be careful but honest efforts on your own to connect to him/her (Hinduism is plural) can/may be possible.

josephschmoe 12y ago
>One personal comment: Based on the above comment, you appear young. I suggest you periodically to look inwards and read books in your language. This sounds very condescending...
- q2 12y ago
  No it is not. I saw the profile of the person and based on that, this advice is ok, since we both appear from same country.
  - 12y ago

ghostDancer 12y ago

If i recall correctly , astronauts at Baikonur, follow a lot of traditions before their launch, planting a tree, watching a specific movie, visiting Gagarin's place , every time and more or less there are other "habits" like those for the astronauts in USA, and even the famous peanuts for unmanned vehicles. So maybe it's a mix of tradition and superstition.

pavel_lishin 12y ago
Don't forget the Orthodox priests blessing them with holy water.

throwawaykf05 12y ago

It's not just Indian space scientists: https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+superstitions https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+superstitions I guess when faced with very high risk situations, people will do whatever helps deal with the pressure, no matter how illogical.

tn13 12y ago

There is nothing wrong in following traditions or coming up with new traditions which are totally irrational. I am an hardcore atheist but I visit temples, perform puja and chant mantras. There is nothing to be apologetic about it. A lot of negative propaganda against Hindu traditions is driven by left liberals who view Hinduism and Paganic beliefs as evil.

mkartic 12y ago

Going to Tirupathi is a pilgrimage. Its misrepresenting religion. Faith by itself isn't irrational. You're putting 'Going to Tirupathi' and 'Not cutting your hair on Tuesdays' in the same bucket. This will only hinder progress in dispelling actual superstitions. Categorizing all religion as superstition seems to be some sort of atheist superiority complex. (I'm an atheist too, btw.)

liquidwax 12y ago

There are two sides to this coin. What it probably means: He gave his 100%. So, the prayer is hope that whatever isn't in his control favours ISRO. What it mostly represents: Pray to God that things work out despite what ever vague amount of effort that might have been put in to the task.