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"Unlimited time off" is the new open office plan. An idea that seems liberating, but will be despised 10 years on. These policies are BS, what they really are

"Unlimited time off" is the new open office plan. An idea that seems liberating, but will be despised 10 years on. These policies are BS, what they really are is the unlimited right to negotiate for vacation time. They are also frequently chosen because they mean employers don't need to cut employees a check for vacation time not taken when they leave. When I left my last job which had this policy I asked for a check for vacation not taken, and was told that one reason they chose that policy was that they wouldn't have to cut such checks. Any reasonable employer can make exceptions to a fixed vacation policy for things like sick leave, if an employee gets layed up for a month after a car wreck they can choose to pay them despite the policy. Either type of policy can be interpreted generously or not, but with fixed vacation policies there are at least limits on how poorly you can be treated, and you know it up front.

philwelch 12y ago
Totally agreed. Are you serious about letting people take vacation? Give 6 weeks paid vacation per year. It's not that hard: six weeks is more than "unlimited" would practically turn out to be, and it's well-defined enough that there's no guilt or anxiety about whether someone's abusing the privilege, and it's low enough that you get roughly a year's work out of the person anyway.
- adwmayer 12y ago
  I used to work at a company with unlimited vacation and I definitely didn't take a lot of vacation, but what I most appreciated about it was not having to sit there and figure out how much time I was taking off. If I had to be out for an afternoon(or just part of the afternoon), I never thought about whether I was taking a half day of PTO or not, I would just let my team know and go. That's the freedom I appreciated much more than the actual amount of time I took off. I think this blog post was definitely getting at this when they were talking about going from having control over your schedule to going to kindergarten. Where I work now is pretty relaxed about needing to take a couple hours off to run an errand or working from home, but it's still definitely something I need to think about.
chadgeidel 12y ago
In every position I've been at, there was no payout for unused vacation time. This was allowed by (US) state law. Of course, everyone would just take all their vacation and come back in and work for a day.
- joshcanhelp 12y ago
  It's on a state-by-state basis: "Remember, states may have laws protecting employees who have accrued vacation time and corresponding pay." http://www.legalzoom.com/business-law/employment-law/employment-law-101-accounting http://www.legalzoom.com/business-law/employment-law/employm...
minikites 12y ago
> They are also frequently chosen because they mean employers don't need to cut employees a check for vacation time not taken when they leave. Ding ding ding! This is a big reason that doesn't occur to most people but saves the employer stacks of money.
- opendais 12y ago
  Yep. It saves them money and in most environments no one takes off significantly more time than they would otherwise.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  Yeah, if there was a blanket "we will give you a check worth 10-20 days worth of vacation time when you leave" policy on top of this, I'd be down for it. As things stand though, you're absolutely right.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  Actually, usually it doesn't save anyone money but the loan company that is guaranteeing the payroll/salary expenses for the year/month/terms that most companies have arranged. Big surprise: a lot of times, companies borrow their payroll and pay the loan off quarterly; in many of these cases, insurance is required, and the insurer is the source for these so-called 'industry standard practices' you seem to have noticed are going on.
vcherubini 12y ago
I think you're exactly correct, and "unlimited vacation" is almost always better for the company than the employee. Here's a great essay on the ills of a policy like this: http://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/ http://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/ One of the main issues it that the US is one of the few (maybe only?) industrialized nation that doesn't require companies to offer PTO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_emplo...
sanderjd 12y ago
I've always thought that FullContact[0] has a pretty nifty way of showing that yes, they really are serious about vacation time. In addition to having an "open" vacation policy like the one described in the OP, they also have what they call "PAID, paid vacation", which is where one time a year they pay you $7500 on top of your salary to take a vacation, as long as you promise to not do any work. Haven't seen anybody else with a policy like that, but I'd love to see it become a trend. [1]: http://www.fullcontact.com/about/careers/ http://www.fullcontact.com/about/careers/
- bmj 12y ago
  My understanding is that RAND has a similar policy: you receive an additional bonus if you use all of your vacation in a given year. I also believe their vacation allowances (at least for researchers, since those are the folks I know there) are very generous.
chrismcb 12y ago
But... Why didn't you take vacation?

philwelch 12y ago

Totally agreed. Are you serious about letting people take vacation? Give 6 weeks paid vacation per year. It's not that hard: six weeks is more than "unlimited" would practically turn out to be, and it's well-defined enough that there's no guilt or anxiety about whether someone's abusing the privilege, and it's low enough that you get roughly a year's work out of the person anyway.

adwmayer 12y ago
I used to work at a company with unlimited vacation and I definitely didn't take a lot of vacation, but what I most appreciated about it was not having to sit there and figure out how much time I was taking off. If I had to be out for an afternoon(or just part of the afternoon), I never thought about whether I was taking a half day of PTO or not, I would just let my team know and go. That's the freedom I appreciated much more than the actual amount of time I took off. I think this blog post was definitely getting at this when they were talking about going from having control over your schedule to going to kindergarten. Where I work now is pretty relaxed about needing to take a couple hours off to run an errand or working from home, but it's still definitely something I need to think about.

chadgeidel 12y ago

In every position I've been at, there was no payout for unused vacation time. This was allowed by (US) state law. Of course, everyone would just take all their vacation and come back in and work for a day.

joshcanhelp 12y ago
It's on a state-by-state basis: "Remember, states may have laws protecting employees who have accrued vacation time and corresponding pay." http://www.legalzoom.com/business-law/employment-law/employment-law-101-accounting http://www.legalzoom.com/business-law/employment-law/employm...

minikites 12y ago

> They are also frequently chosen because they mean employers don't need to cut employees a check for vacation time not taken when they leave. Ding ding ding! This is a big reason that doesn't occur to most people but saves the employer stacks of money.

opendais 12y ago
Yep. It saves them money and in most environments no one takes off significantly more time than they would otherwise.
enraged_camel 12y ago
Yeah, if there was a blanket "we will give you a check worth 10-20 days worth of vacation time when you leave" policy on top of this, I'd be down for it. As things stand though, you're absolutely right.
fit2rule 12y ago
Actually, usually it doesn't save anyone money but the loan company that is guaranteeing the payroll/salary expenses for the year/month/terms that most companies have arranged. Big surprise: a lot of times, companies borrow their payroll and pay the loan off quarterly; in many of these cases, insurance is required, and the insurer is the source for these so-called 'industry standard practices' you seem to have noticed are going on.

vcherubini 12y ago

I think you're exactly correct, and "unlimited vacation" is almost always better for the company than the employee. Here's a great essay on the ills of a policy like this: http://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/ http://jacobian.org/writing/unlimited-vacation/ One of the main issues it that the US is one of the few (maybe only?) industrialized nation that doesn't require companies to offer PTO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_emplo...

sanderjd 12y ago

I've always thought that FullContact[0] has a pretty nifty way of showing that yes, they really are serious about vacation time. In addition to having an "open" vacation policy like the one described in the OP, they also have what they call "PAID, paid vacation", which is where one time a year they pay you $7500 on top of your salary to take a vacation, as long as you promise to not do any work. Haven't seen anybody else with a policy like that, but I'd love to see it become a trend. [1]: http://www.fullcontact.com/about/careers/ http://www.fullcontact.com/about/careers/

bmj 12y ago
My understanding is that RAND has a similar policy: you receive an additional bonus if you use all of your vacation in a given year. I also believe their vacation allowances (at least for researchers, since those are the folks I know there) are very generous.

chrismcb 12y ago

But... Why didn't you take vacation?