7 ms·

Who Died in Beijing, And Why (1990) [pdf]

53 points by ca98am79 12y ago

pvdm 12y ago
Thanks for the upload. I often wondered what really happened and this gets closer to the truth. Western media might be downplaying the events of June 4, 1989 because it hits too close to home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-1B2-gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-1B2-gc
- altcognito 12y ago
  Isn't it great we can actually have a discussion about this, freely and openly?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
gone35 12y ago
Important, timely read. Especially given that HN is currently not blocked in China [1] --although that could change in any minute now. [1] http://www.blockedinchina.net/?siteurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F http://www.blockedinchina.net/?siteurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.yc...
pjc50 12y ago
(1990) Not so much news, as history; but why this history, here, now? Yes, China is not a politically free country and employs a substantial amount of violence to keep things that way. So do a lot of places. There are more recent examples from China if you care to look carefully for them.
- RockyMcNuts 12y ago
  Because it's the 25th anniversary of these events... which a younger generation, especially in China, may not be fully aware of.
  - davidw 12y ago
    It could be argued that this is very much "politics" and does not belong on Hacker News, as per the guidelines.
yiedyie 12y ago
There were more than 1,000 foreign journalists in Beijing on the night of the army's final drive to clear Tiananmen [sic.] Square, and many of them followed the advance of the main Peopled Liberation Army (P.L.A.)assault force through the western suburbs as it plowed murderously through the crowds of laobaixing that formed at all points to block its path. Most of the foreign film footage of the massacre was shot in this sector of the city, in neighborhoods like Muxidi, Fuxingman and Liubukou, where hundreds of unarmed protesters and innocent bystanders were mowed down by random gunfire from semiautomatic weapons. The troops apparently made no distinction between these people and the small number who hurled stones, rocks and Molotov cocktails or set fire to vehicles that had been used as road-blocks. Since this main theater of the massacre was by and large well covered by the foreign news media, we will focus here on some lesser-known aspects of the action along western Changan and Fuxingmen subsequently dubbed "Blood Boulevard" by the people of Beijing. I find this passage strangely familiar with Egypt, Syria, Ukraine or the early becoming of the Romanian revolution with whom I was very familiar. So this is pretty much about the Blood Boulevard than Tienanmen Square. Even the 1,400 soldiers 'shed their weapons and ran away' paragraph has recent echos. After fifty days of occupation by the pro-democracy movement, the square had finally been "returned to the people." That would make Occupy Wall Street blush. And last passage could serve as TL;DR They exploit the fact that no one died during the clearing of Tiananmen Square to conceal the truth that some deaths and injuries did occur there earlier. And they use the fact that there was no bloodbath in Tiananmen Square to cover up the truth about the bloodbaths in Muxidi, Nanchizi and Liubukou. Why do we give them such an opportunity?" Interesting read.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  What's up with the [sic]? That's how you spell Tiananmen. You might as well write "There were [sic] more than 1,000 foreign journalists in Beijing [sic] on the night..." Also, sic isn't an abbreviation.
wynemo 12y ago
The Communist Party of China prohibits talking about Tiananmen(六四), they hope that the public especially the young in China never know about this. Because they also know it is not an honorable thing but a great sin.
bonchibuji 12y ago
Robin Munro wrote a pretty much detailed take in 2009. http://www.thenation.com/article/remembering-tiananmen-square?page=full http://www.thenation.com/article/remembering-tiananmen-squar...
- Galaxity 12y ago
  This 2009 article you posted is actually the exact same piece as the 1990 article that the op posted, except with a few different opening paragraphs.
ant_sz 12y ago
I am a Chinese student, some of my friends and I hold something like a hangout every year about June 4th to in memory of this event. But most of students nowadays in Chinese university have no idea what happened at 1989. What's more, It is very hard to figure out what happened exactly because although many articles like this provide some limited information, many of the statements have no hard backing evidence and are not persuasive. But I think the action GFW blocks google every year about this time contribute conversely to making many young people with high education get to know the Tiananmen because many of them would like to know why the government is doing this.
- firstOrder 12y ago
  In the United States, poor and working people in Los Angeles performed similar actions around this time of year back in 1992. They were concerned with the brutality of the local police, and how the government was unaccountable for it. The US government sent the army and the Marines in and killed some people. This is also unknown to most students in the US nowadays. If it is brought up they say the people were thugs, rioters, gang members, criminals etc. It must have been a lot of criminals since it took thousands of heavily armed police, national guard and military to get back control.
  - khuey 12y ago
    One key difference is that anyone in America can get on a computer and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_American.... In fact, I wonder if there's some sort of perverse lesson here in the fact that this information is freely available in the US and yet still few people know about it.
    - afarrell 12y ago
      Can you provide a source for your assertion that few people knew about these? These are ingrained in the popular culture. "Can't we all get along?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0 "four dead in Ohio": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvg4n8Txgdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvg4n8Txgdc Perhaps Japanese internment is less well known, but I feel like I see it referenced at least once every 8 months or so. Also, have a rap song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJjo0BCbGo&feature=kp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJjo0BCbGo&feature=kp
tuan5 12y ago
this is not about it news at all.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Not everything is on here.
hackuser 12y ago
If there is a problem of awareness inside China due to censorship, then large numbers of websites around the world posting something commemorating Tienanmen Square on each anniversary -- if only a standardized graphic linking to more information -- could make a difference. Usually, actions such as signing an online petition or posing a graphic mean little, but it could help solve this specific problem. The participating websites wouldn't have to post much information; they only need to prompt people to ask questions and find answers. If the Chinese government blocked all the websites posting the commemoration, it would attract more attention and legitimize the issue's importance (otherwise why would the government make such an effort). (It would be interesting to see which companies and people with business in China would participate.)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

53 points by ca98am79 12y ago

pvdm 12y ago

Thanks for the upload. I often wondered what really happened and this gets closer to the truth. Western media might be downplaying the events of June 4, 1989 because it hits too close to home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-1B2-gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-1B2-gc

altcognito 12y ago
Isn't it great we can actually have a discussion about this, freely and openly?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

gone35 12y ago

Important, timely read. Especially given that HN is currently not blocked in China [1] --although that could change in any minute now. [1] http://www.blockedinchina.net/?siteurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F http://www.blockedinchina.net/?siteurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.yc...

pjc50 12y ago

(1990) Not so much news, as history; but why this history, here, now? Yes, China is not a politically free country and employs a substantial amount of violence to keep things that way. So do a lot of places. There are more recent examples from China if you care to look carefully for them.

RockyMcNuts 12y ago
Because it's the 25th anniversary of these events... which a younger generation, especially in China, may not be fully aware of.
- davidw 12y ago
  It could be argued that this is very much "politics" and does not belong on Hacker News, as per the guidelines.

yiedyie 12y ago

There were more than 1,000 foreign journalists in Beijing on the night of the army's final drive to clear Tiananmen [sic.] Square, and many of them followed the advance of the main Peopled Liberation Army (P.L.A.)assault force through the western suburbs as it plowed murderously through the crowds of laobaixing that formed at all points to block its path. Most of the foreign film footage of the massacre was shot in this sector of the city, in neighborhoods like Muxidi, Fuxingman and Liubukou, where hundreds of unarmed protesters and innocent bystanders were mowed down by random gunfire from semiautomatic weapons. The troops apparently made no distinction between these people and the small number who hurled stones, rocks and Molotov cocktails or set fire to vehicles that had been used as road-blocks. Since this main theater of the massacre was by and large well covered by the foreign news media, we will focus here on some lesser-known aspects of the action along western Changan and Fuxingmen subsequently dubbed "Blood Boulevard" by the people of Beijing. I find this passage strangely familiar with Egypt, Syria, Ukraine or the early becoming of the Romanian revolution with whom I was very familiar. So this is pretty much about the Blood Boulevard than Tienanmen Square. Even the 1,400 soldiers 'shed their weapons and ran away' paragraph has recent echos. After fifty days of occupation by the pro-democracy movement, the square had finally been "returned to the people." That would make Occupy Wall Street blush. And last passage could serve as TL;DR They exploit the fact that no one died during the clearing of Tiananmen Square to conceal the truth that some deaths and injuries did occur there earlier. And they use the fact that there was no bloodbath in Tiananmen Square to cover up the truth about the bloodbaths in Muxidi, Nanchizi and Liubukou. Why do we give them such an opportunity?" Interesting read.

thaumasiotes 12y ago
What's up with the [sic]? That's how you spell Tiananmen. You might as well write "There were [sic] more than 1,000 foreign journalists in Beijing [sic] on the night..." Also, sic isn't an abbreviation.

wynemo 12y ago

The Communist Party of China prohibits talking about Tiananmen(六四), they hope that the public especially the young in China never know about this. Because they also know it is not an honorable thing but a great sin.

bonchibuji 12y ago

Robin Munro wrote a pretty much detailed take in 2009. http://www.thenation.com/article/remembering-tiananmen-square?page=full http://www.thenation.com/article/remembering-tiananmen-squar...

Galaxity 12y ago
This 2009 article you posted is actually the exact same piece as the 1990 article that the op posted, except with a few different opening paragraphs.

ant_sz 12y ago

I am a Chinese student, some of my friends and I hold something like a hangout every year about June 4th to in memory of this event. But most of students nowadays in Chinese university have no idea what happened at 1989. What's more, It is very hard to figure out what happened exactly because although many articles like this provide some limited information, many of the statements have no hard backing evidence and are not persuasive. But I think the action GFW blocks google every year about this time contribute conversely to making many young people with high education get to know the Tiananmen because many of them would like to know why the government is doing this.

firstOrder 12y ago
In the United States, poor and working people in Los Angeles performed similar actions around this time of year back in 1992. They were concerned with the brutality of the local police, and how the government was unaccountable for it. The US government sent the army and the Marines in and killed some people. This is also unknown to most students in the US nowadays. If it is brought up they say the people were thugs, rioters, gang members, criminals etc. It must have been a lot of criminals since it took thousands of heavily armed police, national guard and military to get back control.
- khuey 12y ago
  One key difference is that anyone in America can get on a computer and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_American.... In fact, I wonder if there's some sort of perverse lesson here in the fact that this information is freely available in the US and yet still few people know about it.
  - afarrell 12y ago
    Can you provide a source for your assertion that few people knew about these? These are ingrained in the popular culture. "Can't we all get along?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0 "four dead in Ohio": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvg4n8Txgdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvg4n8Txgdc Perhaps Japanese internment is less well known, but I feel like I see it referenced at least once every 8 months or so. Also, have a rap song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJjo0BCbGo&feature=kp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJjo0BCbGo&feature=kp

tuan5 12y ago

this is not about it news at all.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Not everything is on here.

hackuser 12y ago

If there is a problem of awareness inside China due to censorship, then large numbers of websites around the world posting something commemorating Tienanmen Square on each anniversary -- if only a standardized graphic linking to more information -- could make a difference. Usually, actions such as signing an online petition or posing a graphic mean little, but it could help solve this specific problem. The participating websites wouldn't have to post much information; they only need to prompt people to ask questions and find answers. If the Chinese government blocked all the websites posting the commemoration, it would attract more attention and legitimize the issue's importance (otherwise why would the government make such an effort). (It would be interesting to see which companies and people with business in China would participate.)

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]