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I appreciate Unions and I strongly believe that capitalism works well only in connection with democracy. Sure if people who just didn't try hard enough at schoo

I appreciate Unions and I strongly believe that capitalism works well only in connection with democracy. Sure if people who just didn't try hard enough at school and end up at bad jobs vote for 6 or even 2-hour day work, let them have it! I don't care, I'm paid per hour I want to put as many hours as possible.

vidarh 12y ago
The point was that your supposedly amazing free market was not what led to the 8-hour day. It took bloodshed and illegal strikes; demonstrations and decades of fighting for legislation.
- justnotsure 12y ago
  Please note that in communistic states people worked regularly over 8 hours long after 8-hours work week was legislated in the USA. My point is that system evolution via democratic process is much better than bloody revolution that left-wing quite often has on its mouth.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    What does "communistic states" have to do with anything? They were/are kleptocratic oligarchies that are so stratified that they have even worse class systems than capitalist states. > My point is that system evolution via democratic process is much better than bloody revolution that left-wing quite often has on its mouth. It was not evolution via democratic process that gave us the 8 hour day. It was not bloody revolution either, but plenty of blood has been shed during the fight for decent working conditions. People were outright killed. People were arrested. People were intimidated; blacklisted. The current system is only as good as it is because our forefathers were brave enough to stand up and fight even when they had to break the law, and even when they in many cases risked their life to fight the conditions of the time. And they had to: Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. Such as the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, where 146 people died when the factory burned because the employees kept the doors locked during working hours to prevent unauthorized breaks(!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fir...
    - justnotsure 12y ago
      My grandad worked 14 hours+ shifts in 1950s and 1960s in communistic Poland in a steel mill. Anybody who would refuse would end up in jail or even worse - gulag - for treason. As bad as capitalism is it will never, ever be as bad as communism can be.
      - aestra 12y ago
        Capitalism if done wrong can be just as shitty.
        justnotsure 12y ago
        Obvious lie. What in the history of the human kind was worse than Cambodia, Cultural Revolution in China or North Korea today? Nazi Germany? Still had 'socialists' in their party name...
    - aestra 12y ago
      >Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. This is extremely important and often overlooked. Those pesky government regulations save lives. The idea that dangerous conditions and unsafe product won't happen in the free market because that's "bad for business" is a pipe dream. Most of us weren't alive when regulations for safety wasn't a "thing" and can't appreciate them.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. Surely, "employers" rather than "employees" is meant here!

vidarh 12y ago

The point was that your supposedly amazing free market was not what led to the 8-hour day. It took bloodshed and illegal strikes; demonstrations and decades of fighting for legislation.

justnotsure 12y ago
Please note that in communistic states people worked regularly over 8 hours long after 8-hours work week was legislated in the USA. My point is that system evolution via democratic process is much better than bloody revolution that left-wing quite often has on its mouth.
- vidarh 12y ago
  What does "communistic states" have to do with anything? They were/are kleptocratic oligarchies that are so stratified that they have even worse class systems than capitalist states. > My point is that system evolution via democratic process is much better than bloody revolution that left-wing quite often has on its mouth. It was not evolution via democratic process that gave us the 8 hour day. It was not bloody revolution either, but plenty of blood has been shed during the fight for decent working conditions. People were outright killed. People were arrested. People were intimidated; blacklisted. The current system is only as good as it is because our forefathers were brave enough to stand up and fight even when they had to break the law, and even when they in many cases risked their life to fight the conditions of the time. And they had to: Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. Such as the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, where 146 people died when the factory burned because the employees kept the doors locked during working hours to prevent unauthorized breaks(!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fir...
  - justnotsure 12y ago
    My grandad worked 14 hours+ shifts in 1950s and 1960s in communistic Poland in a steel mill. Anybody who would refuse would end up in jail or even worse - gulag - for treason. As bad as capitalism is it will never, ever be as bad as communism can be.
    - aestra 12y ago
      Capitalism if done wrong can be just as shitty.
      - justnotsure 12y ago
        Obvious lie. What in the history of the human kind was worse than Cambodia, Cultural Revolution in China or North Korea today? Nazi Germany? Still had 'socialists' in their party name...
  - aestra 12y ago
    >Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. This is extremely important and often overlooked. Those pesky government regulations save lives. The idea that dangerous conditions and unsafe product won't happen in the free market because that's "bad for business" is a pipe dream. Most of us weren't alive when regulations for safety wasn't a "thing" and can't appreciate them.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Plenty of people died because of the disproportionate powers of employees to dictate conditions. Surely, "employers" rather than "employees" is meant here!