5 ms·

Mark Shuttleworth: white, British descent, Elon Musk: white, Canadian/British descent, Chris Pinkham and Benjamin Black (AWS): white, Emanuel Derman: white,

by SeoxyS 12y ago

Mark Shuttleworth: white, British descent, Elon Musk: white, Canadian/British descent, Chris Pinkham and Benjamin Black (AWS): white, Emanuel Derman: white, J. R. R. Tolkien: white, British descent. --- I'm not trying to say anything about race. But many of the examples you pointed out seemed to be of people of non-african descent. I don't think your examples say much about Africans in tech so much as it says something about people in positions of privilege having the opportunity to found companies. I say this as a one-time white-foreigner living in South Africa, where I spent four years.

kabouseng 12y ago
Having lived in South Africa, you will also know that South Africa houses an indigenous white population that has settled in the country ~ 400 years ago, roughly the same time that Europeans settled in America, and also the same time that the black tribes also migrated and arrived in South Africa (Zulu's, Xhosa's, Sotho's etc.) But now for some reason "African" refers to only black people, and white Africans are priviledged and not worthy of mention. Would you follow that same logic for Americans? *For technical correctness the Khoi-San settled in South Africa ~2000 years ago, but is a minority population in South Africa.
- klaasvakie 12y ago
  Thanks for this kabouseng. As a white South African whose ancestors arrived ~300 years ago, I was wondering how much longer before I was allowed to identify as "African". It's not like I have anywhere else to call home.
  - CmonDev 12y ago
    People are reluctant to recognize the racism against white people. Maybe it will change with the time.
- EtienneK 12y ago
  I'm a white South African Software Engineer, too. Family arrived here +- 200 years ago. If that doesn't make me African, what does? I can promise you that if I go to Europe, I won't be considered European!
  - cubancigar11 12y ago
    Here is the thing. For whatever reasons, right or wrong, most people understand 'African' to mean 'black'. Sucks. Egypt is not populated by black people, and people think of that as part of middle-east. Most people are only consciously politically correct.
  - buyx 12y ago
    I usually take accusations of reverse racism with a pinch of salt, but there was recently a discussion on Twitter where a popular ex-radio host (Kay Sexwale, @kaysexwale), stated that whites cannot be Africans, nor can they lead political parties in Africa. Ordinarily someone like that would be regarded as a kook, but she in the last week, almost got a job as Chief of Staff to the Premier of Gauteng province. Also her assertions were not really questioned by black Africans on Twitter, if I recall correctly (some whites were, rightfully, quite offended). There is a strong degree of vigilance required. However, it should also be admitted that many white South Africans don't make much of an effort to integrate, or to be constructive, instead resorting to constant belittlement, obstructionism and moaning. This combination of white intransigence, and nascent black African supremacism doesn't bode well for the future.
    - kabouseng 12y ago
      If giving up control over your country of birth without any form of violence doesn't show the most absolute effort to integrate, then I don't know what measures will convince you otherwise?
- mattlutze 12y ago
  For what it's worth, the original title was asking where all the African developers are, and the top threads all so far talk about South Africa. We're particularly myopic in the Northern Hemisphere when it comes to Africa, often seeing the Mediterranean coast and South Africa and skipping that middle part... So while it truly is interesting to hear that there's a solid development community in South Africa, it doesn't speak to the larger question on why we see so little coming from the rest of the continent.
  - eitally 12y ago
    I work with a really great Nigerian programmer, if that helps, and one of our project managers is from Mauritius. My boss (CIO) was born in Tanzania, but is of Indian descent.
  - eitally 12y ago
    I work with a really great Nigerian programmer, if that helps, and one of our project managers is from Mauritius. My boss (CIO) was born in Tanzania, but is of Indian descent. I previously hired a South African coder. The one thing all those people have in common: every one of them left Africa for better opportunities elsewhere (US, France, Brazil).
  - klaasvakie 12y ago
    I can't really speak for anything north of the equator, but I have travelled fairly extensively in the southern half of Africa. The impression I get as a visitor to many of these countries is that except for a few big cities it is just too difficult to guarantee power and telecoms access to bet your job on it. Most people will find a job locally doing "boring" software since there is less risk. Working remotely for a company in the US/Europe requires them to understand your (african) problems which is always difficult. If I am at the office and we have no power, my boss understands; If I am remote-working, will my "American/European" boss understand why I just lost a day? The advantage of staying here (in SA) means that even if you are doing boring software, your salary is probably good enough to give you spectacular buying power compared to 99% of the planet. As you move to more remote places, the salaries just keep increasing. I was recently looking at a job in Tete (Northern Mozambique) which paid around USD450k p.a. So, I guess that doesn't really answer your question, but I think Africa is quiet mostly because the "boring" jobs pay disproportionately well --- the incentive to be an entrepreneur is mostly gone. (I say this as someone working at a startup of sorts)
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  Not OP. The difference between the American and South African situations is that no one thinks there's a good chance of the majority non-white population expelling the white population of America or making life so unpleasant all that stays is a tiny merchant minority. If South Africa does not do that it will be yhe first African country not to do so. Kill the Boer, Kill the Boer and all that. Also, if this does happen the white South Africans should expect all the sympathy and aid the white Zimbabweans who didn't leave got, none. If you do not fit the narrative sorry, should have packed for Perth.
  - kabouseng 12y ago
    Lets not forget that this narrative was forced upon white South African's by the liberal west through sanctions and boicots. So if there is a genocide, it will fall squarely on the west's conscience. Lets also not forget that the reason why America and Australia does not have majority non-white populations is because they exterminated their native populations. An inconvenient fact (google general Custer and aboriginea hunting permits). Edit - spelling
- laichzeit0 12y ago
  And yet most white people in South Africa only have a South African passport and are not citizens of any other country. How does that not make them African?
nashequilibrium 12y ago
Have you looked back 300 to 400 yrs of South Africa's history before labeling all these people not African? If this is true, then American whites are not American. You can be white and be African.
SeanDav 12y ago
You are being racist. People born and bred in Africa are of African descent. Skin color is irrelevant and to think that skin color makes a difference to how "african" you are, makes you racist.

by SeoxyS 12y ago

kabouseng 12y ago

Having lived in South Africa, you will also know that South Africa houses an indigenous white population that has settled in the country ~ 400 years ago, roughly the same time that Europeans settled in America, and also the same time that the black tribes also migrated and arrived in South Africa (Zulu's, Xhosa's, Sotho's etc.) But now for some reason "African" refers to only black people, and white Africans are priviledged and not worthy of mention. Would you follow that same logic for Americans? *For technical correctness the Khoi-San settled in South Africa ~2000 years ago, but is a minority population in South Africa.

klaasvakie 12y ago
Thanks for this kabouseng. As a white South African whose ancestors arrived ~300 years ago, I was wondering how much longer before I was allowed to identify as "African". It's not like I have anywhere else to call home.
- CmonDev 12y ago
  People are reluctant to recognize the racism against white people. Maybe it will change with the time.
EtienneK 12y ago
I'm a white South African Software Engineer, too. Family arrived here +- 200 years ago. If that doesn't make me African, what does? I can promise you that if I go to Europe, I won't be considered European!
- cubancigar11 12y ago
  Here is the thing. For whatever reasons, right or wrong, most people understand 'African' to mean 'black'. Sucks. Egypt is not populated by black people, and people think of that as part of middle-east. Most people are only consciously politically correct.
- buyx 12y ago
  I usually take accusations of reverse racism with a pinch of salt, but there was recently a discussion on Twitter where a popular ex-radio host (Kay Sexwale, @kaysexwale), stated that whites cannot be Africans, nor can they lead political parties in Africa. Ordinarily someone like that would be regarded as a kook, but she in the last week, almost got a job as Chief of Staff to the Premier of Gauteng province. Also her assertions were not really questioned by black Africans on Twitter, if I recall correctly (some whites were, rightfully, quite offended). There is a strong degree of vigilance required. However, it should also be admitted that many white South Africans don't make much of an effort to integrate, or to be constructive, instead resorting to constant belittlement, obstructionism and moaning. This combination of white intransigence, and nascent black African supremacism doesn't bode well for the future.
  - kabouseng 12y ago
    If giving up control over your country of birth without any form of violence doesn't show the most absolute effort to integrate, then I don't know what measures will convince you otherwise?
mattlutze 12y ago
For what it's worth, the original title was asking where all the African developers are, and the top threads all so far talk about South Africa. We're particularly myopic in the Northern Hemisphere when it comes to Africa, often seeing the Mediterranean coast and South Africa and skipping that middle part... So while it truly is interesting to hear that there's a solid development community in South Africa, it doesn't speak to the larger question on why we see so little coming from the rest of the continent.
- eitally 12y ago
  I work with a really great Nigerian programmer, if that helps, and one of our project managers is from Mauritius. My boss (CIO) was born in Tanzania, but is of Indian descent.
- eitally 12y ago
  I work with a really great Nigerian programmer, if that helps, and one of our project managers is from Mauritius. My boss (CIO) was born in Tanzania, but is of Indian descent. I previously hired a South African coder. The one thing all those people have in common: every one of them left Africa for better opportunities elsewhere (US, France, Brazil).
- klaasvakie 12y ago
  I can't really speak for anything north of the equator, but I have travelled fairly extensively in the southern half of Africa. The impression I get as a visitor to many of these countries is that except for a few big cities it is just too difficult to guarantee power and telecoms access to bet your job on it. Most people will find a job locally doing "boring" software since there is less risk. Working remotely for a company in the US/Europe requires them to understand your (african) problems which is always difficult. If I am at the office and we have no power, my boss understands; If I am remote-working, will my "American/European" boss understand why I just lost a day? The advantage of staying here (in SA) means that even if you are doing boring software, your salary is probably good enough to give you spectacular buying power compared to 99% of the planet. As you move to more remote places, the salaries just keep increasing. I was recently looking at a job in Tete (Northern Mozambique) which paid around USD450k p.a. So, I guess that doesn't really answer your question, but I think Africa is quiet mostly because the "boring" jobs pay disproportionately well --- the incentive to be an entrepreneur is mostly gone. (I say this as someone working at a startup of sorts)
barry-cotter 12y ago
Not OP. The difference between the American and South African situations is that no one thinks there's a good chance of the majority non-white population expelling the white population of America or making life so unpleasant all that stays is a tiny merchant minority. If South Africa does not do that it will be yhe first African country not to do so. Kill the Boer, Kill the Boer and all that. Also, if this does happen the white South Africans should expect all the sympathy and aid the white Zimbabweans who didn't leave got, none. If you do not fit the narrative sorry, should have packed for Perth.
- kabouseng 12y ago
  Lets not forget that this narrative was forced upon white South African's by the liberal west through sanctions and boicots. So if there is a genocide, it will fall squarely on the west's conscience. Lets also not forget that the reason why America and Australia does not have majority non-white populations is because they exterminated their native populations. An inconvenient fact (google general Custer and aboriginea hunting permits). Edit - spelling
laichzeit0 12y ago
And yet most white people in South Africa only have a South African passport and are not citizens of any other country. How does that not make them African?

nashequilibrium 12y ago

Have you looked back 300 to 400 yrs of South Africa's history before labeling all these people not African? If this is true, then American whites are not American. You can be white and be African.

SeanDav 12y ago

You are being racist. People born and bred in Africa are of African descent. Skin color is irrelevant and to think that skin color makes a difference to how "african" you are, makes you racist.