8 ms·

Still no user accounts on iPad. The only thing I want, and 8 versions in, it's still not there. Why I can't create a login for my kids on my iPad that hides m

by dpcan 12y ago

Still no user accounts on iPad. The only thing I want, and 8 versions in, it's still not there. Why I can't create a login for my kids on my iPad that hides my mail, calendar, certain games, etc? I don't understand why this isn't possible.

duncan_bayne 12y ago
Because iOS devices are single-user by design. Think of the amount of cruft you could cut from your average desktop OS if you didn't have to support multiple users. (I assume that, being UNIX under the hood, there actually are multiple users on an iOS device, for security. But these would presumably be invisible to the user, and not usable as login accounts).
- skeletonjelly 12y ago
  That's some circular logic right there. You can't create a login because they're single user by design?
  - duncan_bayne 12y ago
    Yes. How is that circular? The OP is asking why he can't create separate logins on iOS devices. My answer: because Apple decided to make them single-user, presumably because of the simplicity and UX benefits to be had from that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
    - skeletonjelly 12y ago
      Here's how I read the conversation. > Why can't I create multiple accounts? I want this feature. > Because iOS is single-user. It's not circular sorry, I meant to say your answer is stating the question. I don't mean to offend or start a fight. I just read the conversation similar to "I have X why can't I have Y" "Because you have "X". The "by design" is moot when Apple are the designers. It's not some real world construct or difficult problem to solve, they don't have multi-user because they don't want IOS to have multiuser.
      - duncan_bayne 12y ago
        Fair enough. This is how I meant it: > Why can't I create multiple accounts? I want this feature. > Because we made the decision to make iOS single user because $BENEFITS Multi-user is, in fact, a very difficult problem to solve from a variety of perspectives: UX, security, app development ...
- mikeash 12y ago
  What cruft? Have a button somewhere that lets you switch to a different user. When you switch, you enter that other user's PIN or password. Then you see their apps, have their data, etc. When you switch back, you see your apps, have your data, etc. It doesn't have to be very complicated. Even on a Mac, the "cruft" amounts to my name sitting in the menu bar, and having to choose who to log in as before I put in my password.
  - Too 12y ago
    It sounds simple but it's not. Take android for example, i thought i could quickly set up a guest/party account without my email and things like that. Creating the account and selecting the allowed apps was very easy, the problems came later. First, all my system settings wasn't cloned, to the new account i had to re-add things you take for granted like my localized keyboards and stuff like that, can't remember if wifi passwords were included or not. Then comes application settings, many apps are unusable before you configure them properly, even the web browser is unusable in the default state on high dpi devices, you must change the default zoom level. Then it seems some apps actually share state, and in some cases rightfully so, finding out how they share it is a mystery. Some are designed with multi user in mind so you can in fact have a mail app accessible on both accounts without sharing your mails as the system accounts are linked to different mail accounts. Others are the other way around, maybe you want your 10GB music collection to be accessible from every account? Drawing the line of where and what should be shared is very difficult.
    - MasterScrat 12y ago
      Exactly. It's a hard problem, and one most users don't have. It also goes against the device-as-a-personal-item mentality. It's not gonna happen.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      I find it odd that your first comment is a complaint that setting up a new user actually acts like a new user. Of course your settings didn't carry over. That's the whole point of separate user accounts. I see no need to overcomplicate it. A user account system where each account acts like a separate device (aside from the unfortunate realities of sharing storage resources) would be fine. What apps share state? None! What music gets shared? None! What settings get shared? None!
wan23 12y ago
They announced new family features today that imply that they think each family member should have his/her own device.
- keehun 12y ago
  It sure seems like it. In addition, the way Apple is starting to build out parental controls per app, it seems like they don't intend on having multiple user accounts on each device in the near future.
- dpcan 12y ago
  Like I'm going to get my 5 year old an iPad. Not happening. I let him use mine, and when he logs in, I want him to see a few educational apps... and that's it. When we're at functions, we see parents let their kids use their iPads all the time, and they are always checking in to see if they've opened their email, or certain games, etc. Maybe just a "Kids" login. It has NOTHING but a few apps of choice show up. Doesn't have to be a full user-account system, just a pseudo login that hides almost everything.
  - sentenza 12y ago
    Oh man, I wish more services had a kids login/kids button. Watching videos with my daughter really messes up my youtube recommendations. YT: "What do you want to watch? Some blood-drinking metal band from eastern Europe? Some fine ladies playing beach volleyball? Richard Hammond racing ice-cream trucks on fire? Or Bob the Builder?"
  - seabee 12y ago
    I took a look at the 'Kid Mode' feature on my HTC One. After you add a kid it shows some age-appropriate apps (I guess you can add more) and changes the homescreen activity, modifies the lock screen and intercepts access to other apps, so you can't get out of it unless you do so through the app. It seems to work well enough, but it could really do with more OS integration e.g. prevent access to the notification drawer and multitasking. However, given the number of people I know who bought an additional iPad specifically for their kid, Apple probably doesn't need to encourage device sharing!
prawn 12y ago
Especially in an era with Touch ID. My kid should unlock it and see their apps and not go about accidentally deleting mine. I should unlock and have access to mine, private email and so on. Of course, with the new family features, they want you to have a device each rather than share. Wasteful but drives up their earnings.
robmcm 12y ago
One problem would be disk space, I use 90% of my space so adding another user would be a real issue. Perhaps a guest mode would be better, access to all the apps already there, but wipes when they log out.

by dpcan 12y ago

duncan_bayne 12y ago

Because iOS devices are single-user by design. Think of the amount of cruft you could cut from your average desktop OS if you didn't have to support multiple users. (I assume that, being UNIX under the hood, there actually are multiple users on an iOS device, for security. But these would presumably be invisible to the user, and not usable as login accounts).

skeletonjelly 12y ago
That's some circular logic right there. You can't create a login because they're single user by design?
- duncan_bayne 12y ago
  Yes. How is that circular? The OP is asking why he can't create separate logins on iOS devices. My answer: because Apple decided to make them single-user, presumably because of the simplicity and UX benefits to be had from that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
  - skeletonjelly 12y ago
    Here's how I read the conversation. > Why can't I create multiple accounts? I want this feature. > Because iOS is single-user. It's not circular sorry, I meant to say your answer is stating the question. I don't mean to offend or start a fight. I just read the conversation similar to "I have X why can't I have Y" "Because you have "X". The "by design" is moot when Apple are the designers. It's not some real world construct or difficult problem to solve, they don't have multi-user because they don't want IOS to have multiuser.
    - duncan_bayne 12y ago
      Fair enough. This is how I meant it: > Why can't I create multiple accounts? I want this feature. > Because we made the decision to make iOS single user because $BENEFITS Multi-user is, in fact, a very difficult problem to solve from a variety of perspectives: UX, security, app development ...
mikeash 12y ago
What cruft? Have a button somewhere that lets you switch to a different user. When you switch, you enter that other user's PIN or password. Then you see their apps, have their data, etc. When you switch back, you see your apps, have your data, etc. It doesn't have to be very complicated. Even on a Mac, the "cruft" amounts to my name sitting in the menu bar, and having to choose who to log in as before I put in my password.
- Too 12y ago
  It sounds simple but it's not. Take android for example, i thought i could quickly set up a guest/party account without my email and things like that. Creating the account and selecting the allowed apps was very easy, the problems came later. First, all my system settings wasn't cloned, to the new account i had to re-add things you take for granted like my localized keyboards and stuff like that, can't remember if wifi passwords were included or not. Then comes application settings, many apps are unusable before you configure them properly, even the web browser is unusable in the default state on high dpi devices, you must change the default zoom level. Then it seems some apps actually share state, and in some cases rightfully so, finding out how they share it is a mystery. Some are designed with multi user in mind so you can in fact have a mail app accessible on both accounts without sharing your mails as the system accounts are linked to different mail accounts. Others are the other way around, maybe you want your 10GB music collection to be accessible from every account? Drawing the line of where and what should be shared is very difficult.
  - MasterScrat 12y ago
    Exactly. It's a hard problem, and one most users don't have. It also goes against the device-as-a-personal-item mentality. It's not gonna happen.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    I find it odd that your first comment is a complaint that setting up a new user actually acts like a new user. Of course your settings didn't carry over. That's the whole point of separate user accounts. I see no need to overcomplicate it. A user account system where each account acts like a separate device (aside from the unfortunate realities of sharing storage resources) would be fine. What apps share state? None! What music gets shared? None! What settings get shared? None!

wan23 12y ago

They announced new family features today that imply that they think each family member should have his/her own device.

keehun 12y ago
It sure seems like it. In addition, the way Apple is starting to build out parental controls per app, it seems like they don't intend on having multiple user accounts on each device in the near future.
dpcan 12y ago
Like I'm going to get my 5 year old an iPad. Not happening. I let him use mine, and when he logs in, I want him to see a few educational apps... and that's it. When we're at functions, we see parents let their kids use their iPads all the time, and they are always checking in to see if they've opened their email, or certain games, etc. Maybe just a "Kids" login. It has NOTHING but a few apps of choice show up. Doesn't have to be a full user-account system, just a pseudo login that hides almost everything.
- sentenza 12y ago
  Oh man, I wish more services had a kids login/kids button. Watching videos with my daughter really messes up my youtube recommendations. YT: "What do you want to watch? Some blood-drinking metal band from eastern Europe? Some fine ladies playing beach volleyball? Richard Hammond racing ice-cream trucks on fire? Or Bob the Builder?"
- seabee 12y ago
  I took a look at the 'Kid Mode' feature on my HTC One. After you add a kid it shows some age-appropriate apps (I guess you can add more) and changes the homescreen activity, modifies the lock screen and intercepts access to other apps, so you can't get out of it unless you do so through the app. It seems to work well enough, but it could really do with more OS integration e.g. prevent access to the notification drawer and multitasking. However, given the number of people I know who bought an additional iPad specifically for their kid, Apple probably doesn't need to encourage device sharing!

prawn 12y ago

Especially in an era with Touch ID. My kid should unlock it and see their apps and not go about accidentally deleting mine. I should unlock and have access to mine, private email and so on. Of course, with the new family features, they want you to have a device each rather than share. Wasteful but drives up their earnings.

robmcm 12y ago

One problem would be disk space, I use 90% of my space so adding another user would be a real issue. Perhaps a guest mode would be better, access to all the apps already there, but wipes when they log out.