5 ms·

Here's how bad the calorie counts on apps and wearables really are

6 points by joshreads 12y ago

Jemaclus 12y ago
I've often been frustrated with calorie-counting apps. Let's say I eat a hamburger from a local restaurant. I go to my calorie-counting app, and I type in "burger". It shows me a list: * McDonald's Big Mac 485 calories * McDonald's Quarter Pounder 435 calories * In 'N Out Burger 400 calories * Bubba Burger 315 calories * Beef burger (raw) 239 calories * Hamburger Beef on a Bun 243.9 calories And so on. That range there is over 140 calories. That's a wild margin there. And I also got fries: * French Fry (Sodexo) 260 calories * Curly Fries 200 calories * McDonald's Medium Fries 310 calories * Five Guys Fries 300 calories And so on and so forth. But you know, I just want to Local Burger Joint Restaurant. I don't know exactly how many ounces this patty was, or whether they put butter on it. I don't know if they fried these fries in duck fat or peanut oil or veggie oil. Depending on how they prepared it and what the portion sizes are, the calories per serving an vary wildly. Yet when you go into a food app, they say: > "How many ounces of fries did you eat?" > "I dunno, MyFitnessPal. I ate what they gave me. Let's make it a round ballpark figure of 30 french fries." > "Sorry, Jemaclus. That's not a valid measurement." How about this. How about instead of making ME guess, why don't YOU guess? Why don't YOU say "Okay, generally when you get a burger, it's between 250 and 500 calories... we have 394 samples of burgers in our database. The median calorie count is 412, the mean is 425, the range is 150,... some other statistical mumbo jumbo, and bam. Okay, Jemaclus, we think the burger was roughly 418 calories, or between 410 and 430 calories." And then do the same thing for the fries. Because at the end of the day, I'm just guessing too. When I look at my calorie count at the end of the day, I would be a fool to say "I ate precisely 2318 calories today." What I really think when I see my calorie count is: "This app says I ate 2318 calories today, which is roughly between 2200 and 2400 calories. That's pretty much where I want to be, so I'm okay with that." I mean, don't make me think about it. Don't make me pick which burger I ate from which chain, because the odds are that the exact food I'm eating isn't in your database. Don't make me pick the serving size, because I don't carry a scale around with me -- or measuring cups. Just ask me what I ate today. Then you figure out the rest. We're both guessing here. Just handle it for me. Thanks.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > How about this. How about instead of making ME guess, why don't YOU guess? Because then it would be precise, but not accurate, and calorie counting apps are designed as tools to help people who care about accurately tracking what they eat; they aren't intended to replacing knowing what it is you are eating, they are intended to facilitate going from knowing what you are eating to having a log of calories (and, often, additional related information like macronutrient distribution.) You might occasionally need to estimate if you are eating a serving that isn't in their database (e.g., the "medium fries" of a fast-food outlet they don't have) or not eating a full serving, etc., but even then you'll be able to estimate better than the app would be able to guess, if you have put even a minimal effort (and if you care, you will.) What you are asking for is basically an app designed to provide the false comfort of an illusory accuracy for people who really don't care about tracking what they eat but would like to feel like they are doing it. Which, I suppose, might be a real and possibly even quite large and profitable market, but isn't the market most calorie counting apps are aiming for. > Don't make me pick the serving size, because I don't carry a scale around with me -- or measuring cups. If you care about controlling or tracking your diet at all, it takes very little time and effort to learn to estimate portion sizes reasonably well. And portion sizes vary widely, and there's no way an app can do that for you (well, I suppose, with a camera, the same techniques used to take synthesized 3D pictures, and some kind of reference object that you can put in frame for scale, it probably could, but that's probably more work for the user than just estimating for yourself.)
  - Jemaclus 12y ago
    I think there's room for both models. I care about what I eat, but the way calorie counters work now is that they have too much friction for someone who's basically guessing most of the time anyway. You can add some minor qualifiers to help narrow down the quantities. > "Hey Jemaclus, it's 2pm. What'd you have for lunch today?" > "A burger." > "On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the healthiest, how healthy was the burger?" > "4" (I made it myself) Ping me with a push notification -- hey, time to enter it! -- then ask me a quick question or two to qualify the results. How healthy was it? How many common-sense servings do you think you just ate? My point is that the numbers regular calorie counters give are very exact numbers -- 489 calories for a Big Mac -- but food is rarely served perfectly. Two burgers cooked within 10 minutes of each other at the same restaurant might vary wildly in the number of calories, depending on the size of the patty, the amount of seasonings and butter and what-have-you added to the dish, and so on. At the end of the day, I'm just guessing. On calorie counting apps, the serving sizes are almost always useless. This burger is measured in ounces -- is that before or after cooking? How many ounces is the burger I just got from the restaurant? I know a Quarter Pounder with Cheese from McDonalds is, well, 4 oz (before cooking!), but does that translate 1:1 with my app? Who the hell knows? I think if you're neurotic or otherwise obsessed with tracking your calories super seriously, then maybe you're right. But in my experience, most of my friends who start using calorie counting apps stop using calorie counting apps, because it's so much damned work to track everything they eat all day long. I'm advocating a smarter system. I'm guessing, which is more work than I want to do. Do the guessing for me. Do the work for me. Prompt me when you don't think you can make an accurate guess. I'm happy to say "I think it was 1.5 servings and relatively healthy", but I don't need to sit here and compare a 4oz burger from McDonalds against a 1/3 lb burger from In 'n Out against a "2 patty" burger from Joe's Burger Shack and try and figure out which one more accurately reflects the burger that's sitting in front of me right now.

6 points by joshreads 12y ago

I've often been frustrated with calorie-counting apps. Let's say I eat a hamburger from a local restaurant. I go to my calorie-counting app, and I type in "burger". It shows me a list: * McDonald's Big Mac 485 calories * McDonald's Quarter Pounder 435 calories * In 'N Out Burger 400 calories * Bubba Burger 315 calories * Beef burger (raw) 239 calories * Hamburger Beef on a Bun 243.9 calories And so on. That range there is over 140 calories. That's a wild margin there. And I also got fries: * French Fry (Sodexo) 260 calories * Curly Fries 200 calories * McDonald's Medium Fries 310 calories * Five Guys Fries 300 calories And so on and so forth. But you know, I just want to Local Burger Joint Restaurant. I don't know exactly how many ounces this patty was, or whether they put butter on it. I don't know if they fried these fries in duck fat or peanut oil or veggie oil. Depending on how they prepared it and what the portion sizes are, the calories per serving an vary wildly. Yet when you go into a food app, they say: > "How many ounces of fries did you eat?" > "I dunno, MyFitnessPal. I ate what they gave me. Let's make it a round ballpark figure of 30 french fries." > "Sorry, Jemaclus. That's not a valid measurement." How about this. How about instead of making ME guess, why don't YOU guess? Why don't YOU say "Okay, generally when you get a burger, it's between 250 and 500 calories... we have 394 samples of burgers in our database. The median calorie count is 412, the mean is 425, the range is 150,... some other statistical mumbo jumbo, and bam. Okay, Jemaclus, we think the burger was roughly 418 calories, or between 410 and 430 calories." And then do the same thing for the fries. Because at the end of the day, I'm just guessing too. When I look at my calorie count at the end of the day, I would be a fool to say "I ate precisely 2318 calories today." What I really think when I see my calorie count is: "This app says I ate 2318 calories today, which is roughly between 2200 and 2400 calories. That's pretty much where I want to be, so I'm okay with that." I mean, don't make me think about it. Don't make me pick which burger I ate from which chain, because the odds are that the exact food I'm eating isn't in your database. Don't make me pick the serving size, because I don't carry a scale around with me -- or measuring cups. Just ask me what I ate today. Then you figure out the rest. We're both guessing here. Just handle it for me. Thanks.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> How about this. How about instead of making ME guess, why don't YOU guess? Because then it would be precise, but not accurate, and calorie counting apps are designed as tools to help people who care about accurately tracking what they eat; they aren't intended to replacing knowing what it is you are eating, they are intended to facilitate going from knowing what you are eating to having a log of calories (and, often, additional related information like macronutrient distribution.) You might occasionally need to estimate if you are eating a serving that isn't in their database (e.g., the "medium fries" of a fast-food outlet they don't have) or not eating a full serving, etc., but even then you'll be able to estimate better than the app would be able to guess, if you have put even a minimal effort (and if you care, you will.) What you are asking for is basically an app designed to provide the false comfort of an illusory accuracy for people who really don't care about tracking what they eat but would like to feel like they are doing it. Which, I suppose, might be a real and possibly even quite large and profitable market, but isn't the market most calorie counting apps are aiming for. > Don't make me pick the serving size, because I don't carry a scale around with me -- or measuring cups. If you care about controlling or tracking your diet at all, it takes very little time and effort to learn to estimate portion sizes reasonably well. And portion sizes vary widely, and there's no way an app can do that for you (well, I suppose, with a camera, the same techniques used to take synthesized 3D pictures, and some kind of reference object that you can put in frame for scale, it probably could, but that's probably more work for the user than just estimating for yourself.)
- Jemaclus 12y ago
  I think there's room for both models. I care about what I eat, but the way calorie counters work now is that they have too much friction for someone who's basically guessing most of the time anyway. You can add some minor qualifiers to help narrow down the quantities. > "Hey Jemaclus, it's 2pm. What'd you have for lunch today?" > "A burger." > "On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the healthiest, how healthy was the burger?" > "4" (I made it myself) Ping me with a push notification -- hey, time to enter it! -- then ask me a quick question or two to qualify the results. How healthy was it? How many common-sense servings do you think you just ate? My point is that the numbers regular calorie counters give are very exact numbers -- 489 calories for a Big Mac -- but food is rarely served perfectly. Two burgers cooked within 10 minutes of each other at the same restaurant might vary wildly in the number of calories, depending on the size of the patty, the amount of seasonings and butter and what-have-you added to the dish, and so on. At the end of the day, I'm just guessing. On calorie counting apps, the serving sizes are almost always useless. This burger is measured in ounces -- is that before or after cooking? How many ounces is the burger I just got from the restaurant? I know a Quarter Pounder with Cheese from McDonalds is, well, 4 oz (before cooking!), but does that translate 1:1 with my app? Who the hell knows? I think if you're neurotic or otherwise obsessed with tracking your calories super seriously, then maybe you're right. But in my experience, most of my friends who start using calorie counting apps stop using calorie counting apps, because it's so much damned work to track everything they eat all day long. I'm advocating a smarter system. I'm guessing, which is more work than I want to do. Do the guessing for me. Do the work for me. Prompt me when you don't think you can make an accurate guess. I'm happy to say "I think it was 1.5 servings and relatively healthy", but I don't need to sit here and compare a 4oz burger from McDonalds against a 1/3 lb burger from In 'n Out against a "2 patty" burger from Joe's Burger Shack and try and figure out which one more accurately reflects the burger that's sitting in front of me right now.