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That one pixel is how all windows applications should work. I've been an Opera user for a long time and at some point that one pixel was the only thing stopping

by bicubic 12y ago

That one pixel is how all windows applications should work. I've been an Opera user for a long time and at some point that one pixel was the only thing stopping me from moving to chrome. Here's the deal: when you have multiple monitors, the windows mechanic of click+dragging a full screen application's titlebar is the best way to shift applications from screen to screen. With Opera, I just throw my mouse to the top of the screen and drag. With Firefox and Chrome, I have to search out a tiny 20 pixel wide hitbox between the end of the tabs and the minimize button to start the drag action. Every single windows application I've used respects this mechanic, except for Chrome and Firefox. I actually brought this up with the Firefox UI team on reddit and they agreed that it's broken but evidently decided to keep it because people like OP now expect it. I'm actually looking for a way to enable this on chrome/FF.

lelandbatey 12y ago
If you're willing to try something even more odd, I'd recommend a window tiling program like Winsplit Revolution for automatic resizing and positioning of Windows in a much more finely controllable way that is allowed with Windows keyboard shortcuts by default. I use 3 monitors and it helps me get around window management quirks entirely, while also making dealing with Windows much faster.
onli 12y ago
You should consider using another Window Manager. With Uniy, you could just drag the (prior) global menu, the panel at the top of the screen, and move the window like that. There are others that would force a normal titlebar there, so you could drag that.
regularfry 12y ago
What's the more common action: selecting a tab, or moving a window to a different screen?
- deathanatos 12y ago
  Why not have a way for the window to convey to the window manager that it (the window) is primarily just a holder of tabs (as most browsers, and increasingly more applications, seem to be), and let the WM decide based on the user's preference what the correct behavior and display is?
  - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
    Is there still not a single window manager that understands tabs as a first class object? Why does Chrome (the browser) give me all sorts of fancy tab-related features, but no other program does? Even Windows nearly got this right back in the 3.1 days of MDI, and the entire world has regressed since then.
  - chr1 12y ago
    Because window manager is hard to extend and hard to customize . I can trivially change this and lots of other things in Firefox, but with windows WM i would have to wait 3 years to get any bug fixed or a new feature added. Also calling chrome or Firefox window "just a holder of tabs" isn't fair, they are very special holders of very special tabs, and lots of work goes into them to make them work properly. Also there are other "holder of tabs" windows, e.g Sublime Text, which are mostly similar but have important differences. Trying to move all that complexity into WM simply won't work.
- bicubic 12y ago
  In an overall Windows user experience? Definitely moving windows between screens. Selecting tabs is a pretty niche and uncommon feature across the OS. It's not about which action is more common, its about the fact that the titlebar drag gesture is universal cross windows 7/8 and is a key element of the user experience. There are exactly two apps I've used in the entire history of windows 7 that broke this interaction: Chrome and FF. The fault is on those browsers breaking expected behavior, not Opera for doing what windows users expect. The FF UX team admitted that they overlooked this but its understandable that they're keeping it as users have come to expect it.
  - ygra 12y ago
    Another thing lots of applications with custom title bars get wrong: double-clicking the top-left corner of the window (where the icon is, usually) should close the application. (Firefox is an offender here, too, though Chrome is not.)
    - IneffablePigeon 12y ago
      Wow. I have closed Chrome by accident like that so many times. Always thought it was a really weird crash.
    - fournm 12y ago
      I had no idea this is a thing, which is.. surprising to say the least. That explains a lot of what I thought were crashes, but wow is that user hostile. I'm really hesitant to say Firefox gets it "wrong" even if it is inconsistent.
  - Joeri 12y ago
    Multiscreen usage is exceedingly rare, except among hn readers. Among that crowd having lots of tabs open is the norm. So, the subsegment of multiscreen users who don't use a lot of tabs is probably vanishingly small. Myself I'm a windows user a majority of the time and I strongly prefer chrome's behavior.
Morgawr 12y ago
This is why I always use alt+drag to move windows around on my Linux system. I can't really live without. A few years ago I moved back to Windows for some time and missed that behaviour that much that I ended up writing a small program in C++ that hooks into the windows API and injects that behavior. Never felt better in my life using windows (it also does other stuff like allow alt+right-drag to resize and the option to remove all windows borders). Here's the program in case anybody is interested but keep in mind it can have a few bugs and I stopped using/working on it because I don't use Windows anymore. Not sure how well (if anything) it works on Windows 8+. https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM
- stuaxo 12y ago
  altdrag for windows is one of the first things I install, which only does that. https://code.google.com/p/altdrag/ https://code.google.com/p/altdrag/ I also use true X mouse sometimes for the focus.
  - NickPollard 12y ago
    Thanks! I've been missing this functionality on Windows for so long, didn't realise there were addins to fix it.
  - qu4z-2 12y ago
    AltDrag is fantastic. It's the first thing I install on any windows computer I'm on. As an added bonus it supports toggling "Always on Top" status of arbitrary windows.
- imiric 12y ago
  It's also trivial to implement in AutoHotkey [1], which also adds the resize behavior, plus minimize/maximize/close. Don't use Windows without it. [1] http://www.autohotkey.com/docs/scripts/EasyWindowDrag_(KDE).htm http://www.autohotkey.com/docs/scripts/EasyWindowDrag_(KDE)....
  - qu4z-2 12y ago
duiker101 12y ago
I love this comment. Not because I agree, I would actually prefer it without it. But because it's the perfect example of how hard is to get everyone happy. Pixel? Fullscreen users are not happy. No pixel? Multi-screen users are not happy. Make it a setting? Than you have to make settings for all and it gets messy/complicated!
- karl42 12y ago
  Ideally, this should be decided (or configured) by your window manager. But then, I also think that application tabs should be handled by the window manager somehow.
friendzis 12y ago
In windows 7 (skipped Vista) I'm using [Win]+Arrow to move windows around. With multi-monitor setup it is impossible to attach a window to one side of junction with a mouse anyway.
GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
You can use the Windows key and the arrow keys to move windows around, maximise, minimise, etc...
cpayne624 12y ago
On Win, try [Win + Right/Left Arrow], or [Win + Shift + Right/Left Arrow]
jakub_g 12y ago
In Firefox 29+, you can activate Menu bar which is ~20px high if you want that draggable handle: right-click on an empty space in the top row (not occupied by a tab), or a "+" button, and tick "Menu bar". I'm also using [Win]+[Shift]+arrows for moving between multiple monitors like others suggested.
chr1 12y ago
In firefox you can easily add a small bit of css to change that .tabbrowser-tab {padding-top: 0px !important; margin-top: 1px !important;} Everyone wants and expects different kind of browser, that's why extensible apps fully written with web tech are awesome/

by bicubic 12y ago

lelandbatey 12y ago

If you're willing to try something even more odd, I'd recommend a window tiling program like Winsplit Revolution for automatic resizing and positioning of Windows in a much more finely controllable way that is allowed with Windows keyboard shortcuts by default. I use 3 monitors and it helps me get around window management quirks entirely, while also making dealing with Windows much faster.

onli 12y ago

You should consider using another Window Manager. With Uniy, you could just drag the (prior) global menu, the panel at the top of the screen, and move the window like that. There are others that would force a normal titlebar there, so you could drag that.

regularfry 12y ago

What's the more common action: selecting a tab, or moving a window to a different screen?

deathanatos 12y ago
Why not have a way for the window to convey to the window manager that it (the window) is primarily just a holder of tabs (as most browsers, and increasingly more applications, seem to be), and let the WM decide based on the user's preference what the correct behavior and display is?
- oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  Is there still not a single window manager that understands tabs as a first class object? Why does Chrome (the browser) give me all sorts of fancy tab-related features, but no other program does? Even Windows nearly got this right back in the 3.1 days of MDI, and the entire world has regressed since then.
- chr1 12y ago
  Because window manager is hard to extend and hard to customize . I can trivially change this and lots of other things in Firefox, but with windows WM i would have to wait 3 years to get any bug fixed or a new feature added. Also calling chrome or Firefox window "just a holder of tabs" isn't fair, they are very special holders of very special tabs, and lots of work goes into them to make them work properly. Also there are other "holder of tabs" windows, e.g Sublime Text, which are mostly similar but have important differences. Trying to move all that complexity into WM simply won't work.
bicubic 12y ago
In an overall Windows user experience? Definitely moving windows between screens. Selecting tabs is a pretty niche and uncommon feature across the OS. It's not about which action is more common, its about the fact that the titlebar drag gesture is universal cross windows 7/8 and is a key element of the user experience. There are exactly two apps I've used in the entire history of windows 7 that broke this interaction: Chrome and FF. The fault is on those browsers breaking expected behavior, not Opera for doing what windows users expect. The FF UX team admitted that they overlooked this but its understandable that they're keeping it as users have come to expect it.
- ygra 12y ago
  Another thing lots of applications with custom title bars get wrong: double-clicking the top-left corner of the window (where the icon is, usually) should close the application. (Firefox is an offender here, too, though Chrome is not.)
  - IneffablePigeon 12y ago
    Wow. I have closed Chrome by accident like that so many times. Always thought it was a really weird crash.
  - fournm 12y ago
    I had no idea this is a thing, which is.. surprising to say the least. That explains a lot of what I thought were crashes, but wow is that user hostile. I'm really hesitant to say Firefox gets it "wrong" even if it is inconsistent.
- Joeri 12y ago
  Multiscreen usage is exceedingly rare, except among hn readers. Among that crowd having lots of tabs open is the norm. So, the subsegment of multiscreen users who don't use a lot of tabs is probably vanishingly small. Myself I'm a windows user a majority of the time and I strongly prefer chrome's behavior.

Morgawr 12y ago

This is why I always use alt+drag to move windows around on my Linux system. I can't really live without. A few years ago I moved back to Windows for some time and missed that behaviour that much that I ended up writing a small program in C++ that hooks into the windows API and injects that behavior. Never felt better in my life using windows (it also does other stuff like allow alt+right-drag to resize and the option to remove all windows borders). Here's the program in case anybody is interested but keep in mind it can have a few bugs and I stopped using/working on it because I don't use Windows anymore. Not sure how well (if anything) it works on Windows 8+. https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM

stuaxo 12y ago
altdrag for windows is one of the first things I install, which only does that. https://code.google.com/p/altdrag/ https://code.google.com/p/altdrag/ I also use true X mouse sometimes for the focus.
- NickPollard 12y ago
  Thanks! I've been missing this functionality on Windows for so long, didn't realise there were addins to fix it.
- qu4z-2 12y ago
  AltDrag is fantastic. It's the first thing I install on any windows computer I'm on. As an added bonus it supports toggling "Always on Top" status of arbitrary windows.
imiric 12y ago
It's also trivial to implement in AutoHotkey [1], which also adds the resize behavior, plus minimize/maximize/close. Don't use Windows without it. [1] http://www.autohotkey.com/docs/scripts/EasyWindowDrag_(KDE).htm http://www.autohotkey.com/docs/scripts/EasyWindowDrag_(KDE)....
- qu4z-2 12y ago

duiker101 12y ago

I love this comment. Not because I agree, I would actually prefer it without it. But because it's the perfect example of how hard is to get everyone happy. Pixel? Fullscreen users are not happy. No pixel? Multi-screen users are not happy. Make it a setting? Than you have to make settings for all and it gets messy/complicated!

karl42 12y ago
Ideally, this should be decided (or configured) by your window manager. But then, I also think that application tabs should be handled by the window manager somehow.

friendzis 12y ago

In windows 7 (skipped Vista) I'm using [Win]+Arrow to move windows around. With multi-monitor setup it is impossible to attach a window to one side of junction with a mouse anyway.

GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago

You can use the Windows key and the arrow keys to move windows around, maximise, minimise, etc...

cpayne624 12y ago

On Win, try [Win + Right/Left Arrow], or [Win + Shift + Right/Left Arrow]

jakub_g 12y ago

In Firefox 29+, you can activate Menu bar which is ~20px high if you want that draggable handle: right-click on an empty space in the top row (not occupied by a tab), or a "+" button, and tick "Menu bar". I'm also using [Win]+[Shift]+arrows for moving between multiple monitors like others suggested.

chr1 12y ago

In firefox you can easily add a small bit of css to change that .tabbrowser-tab {padding-top: 0px !important; margin-top: 1px !important;} Everyone wants and expects different kind of browser, that's why extensible apps fully written with web tech are awesome/